Expat Happy Hour with Sundae Bean 3qi1a

For weeks in 1987, Rick Astley’s song, “Never Gonna Give You Up” topped the charts in 25+ countries. It also won most major awards that year and dominated MTV and radio request lines. It had heavy competition. That same year, we were all doing Kylie Minogue’s “Loco-motion” or cranking up the volume on Whitney Houston’s “I Wanna Dance with Somebody.” And while for Minogue and Houston, these songs were just a taste of many wins, the same could not be said for Mr. Astley. So, what’s the difference between years, even decades of success, versus being a one-hit-wonder? Well, I have some bad news… OK, are you braced and ready? You’ll never crack the code. Sorry. Take it from someone who’s been there before, even when you think you have the winning formula, you cannot go to sleep. As the last few years have demonstrated, everything can change on a dime; a lesson we continue to learn as we head into 2023. There’s no question that our modern society undervalues the mentorship experience. It glorifies DIY tutorials, floods us with “self-made” messaging, demands a smooth trajectory, and rewards the concept that we should (somehow) have all the answers already, or else we’re doing it wrong. And although this “X” factor is often unspoken about in business, mentorship is immeasurably valuable, with a profound ripple effect. So, to close out our business and mentorship pod, it’s only fitting that I reveal the immense impact some of my mentors have made in my life.  What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The three Ps of mentorship Building your “business muscles” How to maximize the mentorship experience Benefit from someone else’s mistakes The Sandy Sparkle Listen to the Full Episode: Featured on the Show: The Unspoken Series is blowing my mind with goodness and it’s not too late to catch up on everything you’ve missed. Sign up right here to get all the FREE workshop recordings where global coaches address what goes unsaid about life IN TRANSIT. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Sandra Capra – LinkedIn Susan Hyatt – LinkedIn Dr. Martha Beck Trudi Lebron – LinkedIn The Antiracist Business by Trudi Lebron & Arlan Hamilton Global Coach Coalition Global Coach Coalition – Waiting List Adapt and Succeed Meet the Coalition   We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, it is 03:00 am in New York, 9:00 am in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. And I’m actually really IN TRANSIT right now as I sit in a temporary apartment as we just landed in Switzerland. And in addition to being in transition, I am on a mission to help you adapt and succeed through any life transition.   Before we kick off this episode, I wanted to give a special shout-out to my listeners and recently also my viewers because we have moved the IN TRANSIT podcast also to YouTube so you can view as much as you can listen. And from what I’ve seen, you have loved it because this month we’ve had over 5,000 people listened to the show. So thank you so much for each and every one of you who are new listeners, as well as those who have been longtime listeners. Your engagement means everything to me. So, thank you so much. And if you love this show, but haven’t rated or reviewed it yet, please do because it helps us reach other people and just makes me feel really good.    Alright, so let’s get started. Today’s episode is around business and mentorship. So if you’ve been listening to this Bean Pod, you’ve already had a glimpse of some important mentors in my life and the life of others. That makes me think about this quote, from Warren Buffett. He says, “It’s good to learn from your mistakes, but it’s better to learn from other people’s mistakes.” And I think in my case especially, when it comes around mentorship and coaching, I am the other people because I have made mistakes and I am the first person to share about them so others can learn.    So, the more mistakes I make the better you benefit from because you won’t have to make them like I did. This is the third part of a three-part series on mentorship and I’m really excited to come on the mic and talk with you about it today because I’ve had mentors in my life for decades. And they have truly helped me keep focus, keep the quality of what I do, has kept me in business and truly help me enjoy my experience. So and if you know my work, you know I am all about straight talk. And in my community The Hub, I just talked about The Unspoken, the things that aren’t said that need to be said, that our only thought. And one of the things I want to do is shed light on what’s unspoken in business and that’s also what mentors can help you do. So if you didn’t catch that series inside the IN TRANSIT Hub in my Facebook Community, go ahead and check that out because I gave some straight talk on what’s unspoken. We’ll touch on that a little bit here as well in addition to diving deep into mentorship.    Now, let me start with the unspoken in business. There’s a lot that we don’t talk about that I wish people did more of, and I definitely do share those truths inside, my Global Coach Coalition community, and my program, but one of those is that business- this is going to be really unpopular. Here it comes. Business is hard, right? Everybody out there is promising how it’s so easy and you can make fast money and five figures, 10 figure months, and you know it, overnight. And I just don’t think it works that way. I think if you are creating something of quality with longevity, it takes time. You need to have the right foundations in place. And it cannot be based on a one-hit wonder, but something deep and sustainable.    So, my experience in business is hard. Challenging. But it’s also good. And one of the things that I learned along the way is it’s like that expression, “Small kids, small problems. Big kids, big problems.” The same thing goes for business. But what I’ve learned, I thought, when I was working with my mentors, I’d assumed that the more successful they got and the longer that they were in business, the fewer problems they would have. But that isn’t the case, what I did learn and I’ve learned that with my own business is, I’ve already celebrated my ninth year, I’ll be going into my 10th year celebration in June, that the problems get bigger. But you have then developed capacity to navigate them. It’s like you’ve built the muscles to navigate those problems.    So, when I started boxing, a little bit of endurance strengthening that I did, depleted me the next day. Over a year of boxing with my coach, I realized what I was doing then, was now lighter and I was ready to take on harder things. And that’s what I think you should be prepared for with business, that there is an uphill climb, and then does it mean you’re doing it wrong. It means that this is how it works. We go up that incline and we build our muscles, right?    The next thing I think that we don’t talk about enough is that you never crack the code. But what I’ve learned is that like with life, your business is also IN TRANSIT. So even if you have years where things were working, something will happen and it will make you shift just like that.    I had three really successful years in of business, back to back. And then COVID hit. COVID threw everybody for a spin. And while that year was very successful for me, I did feel the impact of following year. And right when I felt like we were gaining normality again, then Russia invaded Ukraine, creating instability globally for those who are looking for products and services like mine.    So even when you have, what you think is a winning formula, you can’t go to sleep. You have to still be paying attention to the market and it doesn’t mean you didn’t do it right. It didn’t mean you didn’t crack the code. It means that there is no code to crack. It is a constant monitoring of your environment and your business and clients’ needs. So if you want to crack the code go ahead and give it a good go but I just don’t think our global economy works like that. I don’t think we work like that. I think it is something that is constantly IN TRANSIT like your life.    The third thing I think that is too often unspoken is that you will make mistakes. You will make mistakes and we often go to mentors so we can avoid mistakes. And my philosophy is go to mentors so you will avoid the easy ones. We need to save our resources and energy for the hard ones. So don’t waste it on the easy ones. And when you work with a mentor, they will be by your side to help you untangle the tough ones.    The other thing that I’ve learned about mistakes, I used to want to avoid them. I don’t know why I felt like I had to avoid them. Maybe that’s the recovering perfectionist in me coming out. But what I’ve realized is that when we take a growth mindset and we say, “Okay, what can I learn from that?” That you’re actually stronger on the other side, right?    So those are some things I think we need to keep in mind and speak more about in business: It’s hard.  You never cracked the code.  You’ll make mistakes.    I don’t think when you scroll on social media that that message comes across. In fact, I think it’s the opposite. And I think they’re selling you things that are not true. It doesn’t mean that you can’t bring in more ease in your business. It doesn’t mean that success can’t happen with lightness. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying, don’t go in thinking that you’re doing it wrong if you feel like you’re going on an upward incline. Don’t feel like you’re doing it wrong if you have set up systems that were working and now no longer working. That’s part of the process. Don’t think that you’re bad at business because you’ve made some mistakes, it means you’re engaged. It means you’re trying new things. In fact, it’s a sign that you’re doing something right.    Okay. That is my little soapbox about the unspoken and business, as it’s connected to mentorship because this is what mentorship is about. It’s about helping others see what they can’t see. The things that are ahead of them that you might not be expecting.    So while we talk about mentorship today, I want to go into a few basics. I want to define what mentorship is so then we’re on the same page. I want to share a little bit about the benefits of mentorship by giving you a sneak peek into what I’ve gained from working with my own mentors. And then I’ll share a little bit pragmatically about how you can make the most of a mentorship, whether you are the mentee or the mentor. And of course, we’ll talk about what are the risks if you don’t have one.    Okay. So let’s dive in. I would love to talk about my very first mentor and I don’t know if I’ve mentioned her on the podcast. She doesn’t know that I’m going to talk about her but she’s someone that I hold very near and dear to my heart and her name is Sandra Capra. I worked with her at Accenture. Then it was called Andersen Consulting, a consulting firm way back in the 90s. And she was my first introduction to the professional sphere. I was in university, of course I had worked, but I had never worked in a corporate context. And I can’t tell you how lucky I was to have her as a mentor at the time, because what I learned from her is that: she showed me how to create space. She showed me how to celebrate. She showed me how to work through hard things.    And besides really practical things, like learning about instructional design, she did other things for me. Like, she nudged me to get more work-life balance when I really needed it. And she, which a lot of people don’t know, she’s actually the one who introduced me to coaching. The reason why I learned so much from her as a mentor is because she modeled it, she lived it. And she in addition to being a role model, she invited me into her, “Why?” Behind her choices. So it wasn’t about learning from her mistakes. It was about watching her successes and then helping understand why it worked, right? What is the reason behind, what I would call the “Sandy Sparkle?”    She taught me very early on that I could be very serious about my work and bring joy to others around me. So Sandy, if you’re listening, I am forever grateful to you because you set the bar high and you set the tone for me.    Did she know she was going to have an impact on me 20 years into the future? No. Did I know that? No. But looking back, I see the impact that she had on me as a mentor. And thus, I think it’s important for us to talk about mentorship because if we are the mentor, we hold the possibility for impact in ways that we don’t even realize. If we are the mentee, we can be shaped in a way that will do good for decades to come. And I don’t think we talk about the importance of mentorship enough in light of that potential impact.    All right, let’s fast forward to one of my business mentors. Now, I’ve talked about Susan Hyatt on the show. I’ve even had her in an episode. It’s no secret that I have leaned heavily on the mentorship and coaching of Susan Hyatt for my own business success. And I want to share a little bit about why I chose to work with Susan. The ironic thing is that Susan and I both share similar coaching training. We both went to Dr. Martha Beck for our coaching background. I’ve done other coaching’s, but that’s one that we share. But why go to someone who might share methodology with me? I chose Susan because I had watched how she was showing up over years and there was something about her that was bold, that mirrored in me what I knew I had inside but hadn’t yet embodied. So I chose to work with Susan not to be like, Susan or to do what she does. But to find that form of bold in me. My flavor of bold.   And believe me, I know there are ways Susan, and I are very different. And Susan, if you’re listening, you’ll our swimsuit fight on a yacht where she was encouraging me to be bold in one way that I was like, “No, no. That’s not gonna happen.” So the thing is with Susan, I knew she embodied what I could inside but hadn’t been coaxed out of me yet.    So if you’ve been following my work, you might have noticed a shift, 2016-2017 where I wasn’t using Susan to be able to her. I was utilizing our relationship as a mentor-mentee and coach-coachee to be able to myself. Another thing that I’ve really appreciated about working with Susan Hyatt is that when you work with her one-to-one, she’s very open about mistakes that she’s made. And it has helped me in working with her and in a mentorship group with other successful business women together watching that those mistakes don’t go away. Again, it goes back to what we’re talking about before, it’s they’re inevitable. It’s how you handle them.    So for me, it normalized challenges in your business and it took away the shame of, “Oh, that I messed up.” Or, “That was hard.” Or, “That didn’t work.” Even to know, not everybody constantly sells out everything all the time when you get further down the road, helped normalize those ups and downs, right?    So, why do I share that with you? I share that with you because if you’re looking for a mentor, I would encourage you to find one that lives what you want to embody. What you need coaxed out of you. And from my perspective, I would suggest finding someone who challenges the status quo and who does the unconventional or the unexpected, because they are the ones who are taking risks and are learning from them and growing from them. They’re the ones that are probably growing at a faster rate than someone who’s playing it safe.    So thank you to my business coach Susan Hyatt for the impact you’ve made on my life and business over the years.    Now, a more recent mentor is Trudi LeBron. You’ve heard about her in this pod that we have on Business and Mentorship. She was my Equity Centered Leadership Mentor. Now, I have such a hard time putting into words what I learned from my time with Trudi, I worked with her for over a year in a group and one-to-one. And just some of the things that I gained from working with her was more depth in how I create community, more skills around how to create psychological safety. The importance of creating intentional spaces and what it really means to have an equitable business.    The learning I had with Trudi, even though you can learn about it in her book, which is amazing, and I recommend it to everyone, is much more than knowing. It’s embodied. At least for me on my journey, it was necessary also that it’s embodied learning. And her practices are deep and powerful so I cannot explain the impact that it’s had on me. I know it will last a lifetime.    And it makes me think about when people talk about working with a coach or a mentor, what’s the ROI? You hear that a lot, the return on the investment. And while with Susan Hyatt, I could quantify the return on the investment legitimately. And this is just a sort of a side note for people who are thinking about, “Is an investment worth it?” Don’t look at the moment that you’re working with that person, look in the next year and the following year because for me in my experience, the return on my investment happened in the future. It was the year after or even two years later because that impact takes time.    And that’s what I mean. People aren’t often patient. They’re ready for quick results now. But doing the right work is a process, right? It is a process. So with Susan Hyatt, I was able to quantify the return on my investment and show that to myself as the business owner. Yes, that legitimately one-to-one created return. But with Trudi it wasn’t about the financial investment. I measure it in of quality of community. And I can’t share all the details, but one of the most meaningful pieces of I’ve ever received was from a participant who had a very traumatic experience in her year and had been struggling. And I didn’t know this and she came into my community with others, and later, I heard her share that she hadn’t felt that safe in months. And to be able to hold a space for someone who, due to something traumatic, was not feeling safe and be able to create that with them is priceless.    So think about your mentors and go beyond this idea of a return on investment quantitatively in of money but also think about your mentorships in of depth of your own growth and quality of what you’re creating. That is unparalleled in of why you should work with a mentor. At least for me what I’ve gained from my mentors. I know had I not done this, had I not invested in these mentorships, the money that I invested it collectively was a lot. It was very significant. But I honestly don’t think I would have saved anything. In fact, I would have made less money and there would be less depth less safety for my community, and less quality professionally. So I owe so much of the impact I make in people’s lives to them. That’s that ripple effect that mentors have in your life.    So the question might be, we talked about why? Why mentors? What are the impact? What you get from it? But what about the how? How do I make the most of a mentorship relationship? And, you know me, I always have something very practical and tangible for you to work on. I would think about it in of the three P’s. The Three Ps of Mentorship is Prepare, Practice, and Pause. Prepare, Practice, Pause. This is something actually teach inside my program, Global Coach Coalition. So if you’re interested in more, you know where to go and how to me.    But let me just say a little bit about it. Briefly here, the Three Ps around Prepare, Practice, and Pause is when you are the mentee, it’s important for you to Prepare before you meet them so you can really articulate what you want to get out of your time together. Now it might be your anxieties that you’re feeling. It might be around some of the hopes that you have, the aims that you have, but come to your session and be directive with your mentor.    Now, if you’re the mentor, how do you prepare? One thing I think is really important for mentors to do is to battle their unconscious competence, right? There’s so much that you know but you don’t realize how much you know. So one of your jobs, I think as a mentor is to draw down that wisdom and learning and be able to articulate it to your mentee. So do the work, prepare and think through; How did I get that success? What were some of the mistakes I made? How did I rebound from them? So, that’s preparation.    Then the next P is Practice. That means in your time together during your session together, practice this dance of sharing and asking. So both parties share and ask in the session so that the goals are met. Practice listening to your mentor. But also practice listening to yourself. And accepting, what they have to share, but without attachment. Because if you’re the mentee and they have wisdom for you, it may or may not resonate with you based on your lived experience. And as a mentor also share without attachment on whether they will do it or not because they are the expert of their lives. And then during the process, share on the process. “Is this working for us? Do we want to change direction?” So you’ve prepared now during the session, you’re practicing.    And then after comes the Pause. So if you’re the mentee, pause and think well, what resonated? What am I willing to experiment with? What are my homework assignments? My next steps? What has to happen before we meet again? That’s pause.    And as the mentor you also pause. What am I learning about my mentee that I didn’t know before? What do you think based on your experience does your mentee need next? What is coming that they can’t yet see?    So Prepare, Practice, and Pause will give you some insight on how you can the mentorship experience.    I hope that’s been helpful for you. , do you have to have a mentor? Just saw something today on LinkedIn. It said, “You don’t need coaching. It’s not like toothpaste,” right? The same thing with mentorship. You don’t need a mentor like we need to brush our teeth or we need food and water. But we are richer because of it, we are nourished because of it. When we have a mentor, we avoid the easy mistakes and then save our energy for the big ones. We are able to move forward faster without a mentor, it slows us down and our quality stagnates.    And perhaps one of the most important things benefits of having a mentor is that you don’t feel alone. Having a mentor by your side keeps you motivated.    All right, it has been so joyful for me to talk about mentorship today because I’ve just tapped into these wonderful relationships I’ve had over the years and reflected on what I’ve gained. I can’t tell you how meaningful it has been for me to think about that. And that is one of the things that encourage you to do. Look back, who have been key mentors in your own life, in your own business, in your own profession? What did they do that contributed to the quality of your work, the quality of your life? And then maybe reach out to them and say, ”Thanks.” Just like this episode is a way to say thanks to my mentors.    All right. There you have it. I’m so grateful to have this time to talk to you about mentorship and of course, this is part and parcel of everything that I do. If you are living a globally mobile life or your life is IN TRANSIT, I have built a program called Adapt and Succeed to mentor you along the way. To share the mistakes that you don’t want to make. To avoid the easy ones. To help you have tools to untangle the tough ones, and to fast-track where you want to go. As well as cherish the experience. Adapt and Succeed has been tested and proven around the world from a wide variety of individuals. And we have upgraded it to be more in alignment with where I’m at now in my business and to reach a larger number of people, But still in a very deep way. So check it out. Adapt and succeed. If you’re not a do-it-yourself person, of course it has built-in mentors. Alongside you for Adapt and succeed are the licensed facilitators of the program, the Global Coach Coalition, so definitely check it out. I’ll put information in the show notes.   And just a little heads up. If you want to be a mentor to other people who are living globally mobile lives, or lives IN TRANSIT check out Global Coach Coalition. We are having a brand new version of it coming up in 2023. You can get on the waiting list, The bonus of that is you have me by your side, not just for the tools but as a business coach to help you avoid the mistakes and fast track what I learned to do along the way. So two exciting things to check out the show notes and get on the waiting list.  All right, so everyone, thank you for being here listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean, thank you for listening. I’ll leave you some words from John C. Maxwell: “One of the greatest values of mentors is the ability to see ahead what others cannot see, and help them navigate a course to their own destination.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 295: The Mentor “X” Factor appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Luke Skywalker and Yoda. Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan. The Karate Kid and Mr. Miyagi. Whether fictional or factual, every hero’s journey involves a knowledge acquisition phase followed by a distribution phase. It also frequently includes — at least at first — an underestimation by the protagonist about how much the mentor will change the trajectory of their life. In other words, the young “protégé” doesn’t realize who’s in the room with them. So, the mentee overfocuses on the task portion during the knowledge transfer and overlooks the relationship aspect of it. Perhaps missing the most valuable portion of the exchange. It’s my pleasure to welcome Terri Krivosha for the second part of our business and mentorship pod. Terri’s a respected business attorney with a reputation for successfully mediating highly complicated commercial disputes. By her own ission, she loves to untangle tough “business divorces.” Terri s us to share her story, with a special focus on the critical role that mentors played along her journey. And, as is often the case, this spiritual and professional guidance Terri zestfully reciprocates to others, giving her a perspective through both peepholes. Today, we unpeel mentorship’s many layers, including what to do, what not to do, the gravitas of the exchange, and how to handle it when it hurts. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Nurturing vs. exploiting Being in competition with yourself Democrats & Republicans in kindergarten Intentional + predictable + flexible Realizing your mentor is human Listen to the Full Episode: Featured on the Show: Tough question alert! Look at the global mobility mentor you’ve selected. Then ask yourself: “Are they the best person to learn from or is there a wiser choice?” Align yourself with a trusted global coach right here and get the knowledge transfer from someone who’s been there before.  Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Maslon – Website Terri Krivosha – LinkedIn Summer Institute of Intercultural Communication The Institute of Equity-Centered Coaching Da Da Ding – Nike Song   We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, it is 10:00 pm in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. And I’m actually really IN TRANSIT right now as I sit in a temporary apartment as we just landed in Switzerland. And in addition to being in transition, I am on a mission to help you adapt and succeed through any life transition.   Way back when I was getting my honors thesis for my bachelor’s degree, I had the honor, which I didn’t know was an honor at the moment to be mentored by Dr. Karlyn Kohrs Campbell. I was going to talk about how the media criticized women in politics, and that was my idea to talk about the First Ladies, Elizabeth Dole and Hillary Clinton, and how the media criticized them differently. Went into my office with my first draft and she had written notes on it. I looked at my draft, this was the old school days where it was in ink, there was red everywhere. I barely walked into the door, she handed the paper back and she said, “Good for a start, but here’s what we’ll do instead.” She loaded my arms up with books and as I walked out, I realized they were all written by her.    I had been meant hurt by one of the leading thinkers on the media’s critique of women in politics. It was that moment that I realized this is an important woman in my life. This is a mentorship I shouldn’t take for granted. We hadn’t seen each other for months after she had helped me with my paper and I learned that in that time in between, she had experienced loss. It was that moment again where I saw her in a totally new light. One, not just as a successful academic but just a real woman. These are the impacts that mentors have on us. And I was so young and I didn’t realize who was investing in me and just how much I should be appreciating that.    So today’s guest, I think is THAT woman in many other people’s lives. Terri Krivosha is here to share her story, not only of her mentoring but being mentored in her career. From what I’ve heard from Terri, her life would start out at least by my definition as unconventional, and she leveraged her energy and direction to end up having an outstanding professional path. So, thank you Terri for ing us today.   Terri: I’m delighted, thank you Sundae, I’m thrilled to be here.   Sundae: So Terri, I’m going to tell a little bit, to our audience about your background and why you were so kind to agree to accept my invitation, but why I invited you to today. So Terri and I had a conversation informally and at the end of the conversation, I was struck by just listening to your journey, Terri, how you were sharing about your life, but really what it was was about mentorship and transformations. And let me tell the audience a little bit about Terri’s professional background. Terri is a successful business attorney, and mediator, from what I’ve heard, she’s known for how much she truly enjoys helping her shareholders, her family, business owners, and companies that are either buying or selling businesses or trying to solve some very large problems. She says, “The more complicated the better.”    After years of experience in a wide variety of commercial transactions, and businesses, she’s now focusing her practices on MMA restructuring and shareholder, what are called, “Business Divorces,” and mediation of commercial disputes. So really an impressive career, I’m guessing, just based on what you’ve shared with me already. One that was quite a trendsetter for the time that you started. So, do you mind Terri telling us a little bit about how you got started? Why you got started to do what you do?    Terri: Yes. Yes, Sundae, thank you very much and I have to say that some of what I’m going to say, I really hadn’t put it together until you and I chatted the first time. So I’m very appreciative of the opportunity to kind of reframe and look back at my own past and understand how I got here because I don’t think we all do that very often and sometimes were afraid to. So I was I was pleased that we had that I had that opportunity. I grew up in what I thought was the kind of home that everybody grew up in. I had a very, I guess maybe conventional but unconventional parents. My dad who ed away during the pandemic was a lawyer and also the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in Nebraska for several years and he was really my first mentor. We had very strong ideas in our family of things that were important to us. I that the first word I learned from my mother or father, I think was “Democrat.” So, that was the first. And I even when I went to kindergarten the first day, I met a little girl and I came home and I said to my parents, “I met this very nice girl today,” but this is me in kindergarten now, I was four and a half but my mother couldn’t wait to get me out of the house. I said, “But her family is Republican.” “Well,” they said, “How do you know that?” I said, “We had a conversation about it today in kindergarten, and we exchanged this information and am I allowed to be friends with her?”    So the funny part is it turns out her father was my dad’s moot court partner and the two of them had gone to law school together and had decided at the end of their law school days – he claims this is true, I’m not sure if it’s apocryphal or not but – that they both wanted to get into politics. And they thought it didn’t make sense for them to both be on the same side. So he claims they flipped a coin, which I don’t believe, and he decided to be a Democrat and his partner decided to be a Republican. In any event, they explained that I was allowed to be friends with her and that would be fine.    And so when I didn’t realize about my dad is when you grow up you just think that every family is like your family. “No family is any different,” and my dad was really an innovator. We tried everything, right as it can, as it came out. We were early adopters, we had the first push-button phones. We had the first microwave. When my father was on the court, he had this view that the people of Nebraska should be able to learn about what the Nebraska Supreme Court does.    So his idea was we’re gonna go out to all the different little cities, the court, we’re going to go out and have dinner the night before, have a hot dish for everybody to eat, and then the next day we’re going to actually hold a session in their city so they can come and watch it and see what we do. Well, his brethren were having nothing of that.   So, I think the most innovation they made on that was they sat at the law schools and some of those sorts of things, but those were the sorts of things that I just grew up with, he just was a big thinker. I never having any sense of I can’t do what I want. There wasn’t any pressure on me to become a lawyer. There was just – learning was very important. Curiosity was very important, and just do what you love. I mean, that’s the part that came through.    Sundae: So Terri, this is what I find interesting because I think you and I might have been given similar messages or at least, as a child, absorbed those messages, similarly, in of feeling ed by your parents that you can do anything, but having your parents believe in you. However, I’m from a small Midwestern town. I didn’t have any female role models that I could look to that were doing big things around me that were unconventional, which I think is, I don’t know about you but it sounds like early on when you had that idea, “I could do this,” the spaces that you entered were completely male-dominated.    Terri: Well, they were but now as I’m thinking about this, there was a woman who was the mayor, I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska, was the mayor of Lincoln and I she was friends with my father and I didn’t think anything of the fact that she was a woman. I really just didn’t think about it. And to the point where once I told my son when he was maybe seven or eight, your grandfather is also a lawyer, just like me and he looked at me and he said, “Well, he can’t be only, girls can be lawyers.” I mean, this was my son.   Sundae: I love that.   Terri: So he had made that association. It’s interesting. I don’t know how–    Sundae: So beautiful.  Isn’t it how important it is for our kids when they see something that they think it’s possible.   Terri: Yeah. Yeah, so I just it never me Nan. And I say that law was my family business. I grew up waiting for juries. My mother was a more traditional mom, but she also did unusual things. Her field was teaching individuals who had trouble learning how to read. She had a lot of training and dyslexia she could diagnose it and then work with them. And when my father was a judge, she taught prisoners how to read. So we sort of joke that she taught the burglars to become embezzlers.    But she was also ionate about what she did and to the point where there were people that came back to them – they had people in their lives that they had impacted, who would often just appear, ”ing through wanted to stop and give you a hug.” And I found out when my father died, the number of people that he actually touched in his life, which was, I just had absolutely no idea. I just thought he was, like I said, a regular dad. And I realized as I reflected on this, that when I started college, I went to both Columbia University and the Jewish Theological Seminary. I grew up in a small town. I was very interested in Judaism, wanted to get more knowledge. And this program at Columbia and JTS would give me the opportunity to do two BA’s.    So my mentor at JTS, I wrote at the time, was the only woman Talmud scholar, really in the world. And I had no idea. But I didn’t think anything of it. I knew she was the first but I just sort of took that in like, “Okay if she can be the first, then I can be the first.” And I guess that’s what happened. And I really didn’t realize til our earlier conversation we had how many women I had been influenced by as I was going through my education.    So was one, Judith Helpmann was her name. She eventually went on to become a Rabbi but she was a Talmud scholar, before anything. And I ired her and I ired her ability to just, I think she’s pregnant with twins at the time and continued to teach us. So really what the Talmud is, I think it’s it’s either 2571 or 2751 pages both sides, it’s a folio page of really Jewish law. And I’m actually now part of an international book club, where every day we do a page. And our cycle started in January of 2020, seven and a half years later, we have gone through the entire thing. Which is kind of fun because then it was started by somebody 100 years ago to give Jews something to talk about when they met each other, as if we have any trouble. But anyway, when you just talked long enough to another Jewish person, you realize you’ve got the same cousin or something.   But anyway, so what it opened up for me, was this vast legal discussion that goes on every day on the page and then there’s commentaries around it that explains and she just opened me up to this world. So it was sort of like what I was going to study in law school but it was in Aramaic and Hebrew and so I thought this would be a good pre-law, so that was my major. And at the same time I was doing an ancient history major because I’m just fascinated by this whole period second temple, and kind of on like 4th, 5th, 6th Century AD as these different academies of Rabbis were being established both in Babylonia and in Israel. And so that was the area I focused on at Columbia.    And I also had a woman advisor, who didn’t do what you said your mentor did, but she was wonderful *laughter*   Sundae: You did a lot better than I did I think. *laughter*    Terri: But again, I looked at her and I thought, “Well look, she’s been able to succeed.” I guess what I didn’t understand at the time is I was seeing these female role models and I didn’t feel daunted by them. I just fit and I didn’t feel like there aren’t enough of them. So I guess I never felt like a pioneer or those sorts of things. I mean, I wasn’t even quite sure, I when I was younger what a feminist was because I wasn’t like demonstrating and doing those sorts of things. I saw examples of how women could be successful and I figured I could do that too.    Sundae: That’s beautiful. Regardless of where you identify on the gender spectrum? It can just be like, “Hey, let’s do this.”—   Terri: Yeah, my family gave me a lot of confidence. I hope they didn’t give me too much. But they made me realize, I’m never scared of doing something new and I’m a lifelong learner. So a few years ago, I had always been told by opposing counsel and deals that I’d be a great mediator. So I decided a few years ago to get qualified as a mediator, which I thought would be fun. So, it’s just a different part of my brain that I’m trying to work with right now as I’m continuing to develop my practice. And then I started at a big law firm in New York City, Paul Weiss, it was Paul Weiss, Rifkind Wharton & Garrison at the time. And my mentor there was the only woman, the only woman partner, I think at the time, maybe there was one other partner, but she was the first woman partner at Paul Weiss.   And again I didn’t think, “Oh, they’ve assigned her to me because I’m a woman.” I just looked at her and I watched her negotiate and that was in the days when that’s what you did. You actually sat at the feet of your mentors in a room with other people and you just watch what they did. And I just absorbed it. And then they gave you little things to do, it was an apprenticeship. And I’m still in touch with her. She has now retired and I have gone back throughout my career to make sure she knew what I was up to and to tell her how grateful I was for what you did for me.   Sundae: That’s so beautiful. And so this is where I find– maybe this is just where I am in my life, but right now when I think about it, I look at the opportunities I’ve been so lucky to be in the same room as some brilliant people. And where my hindsight comes in is, I don’t know at that age, if I fully appreciate it, who I was in the room with.    Very simple example. But for example, I am trained in Personal  Leadership. They call it PL. And this was back in like, I don’t know, 2004-2005 I did this course through the Summer Institute of Intercultural Communication. And years later, I was talking to someone and they featured someone who is trained in PL, and I said, “Oh, I’m trained in PL,” and it was like this big deal.   This approach to leadership and cross-cultural communication, I’m like, “Oh, oh yeah, Barbara Schaetti and Gordon Watanabe, they were my people who taught me.” I didn’t realize I was sitting at the feet of the people who created this methodology. And this is the same thing with Dr. Karlyn Kohrs Campbell, Dr. Judith Martin, I’ve been in spaces where I knew I had something to learn, but I didn’t quite grasp what an opportunity that was.    So, I’m just wondering with the benefit of hindsight, right? Maybe that’s wisdom as we get older and process this, if we could give people advice what they could do to more intentionally nurture their relationship with people who mentors.    Terri: Oh, that’s hard because when I think back Sundae, I realized I didn’t have any idea how important these people were and I’m not sure I realized until recently. I think –  so there’s a couple of things. And I when I was graduating from law school, we graduated, they held her graduation at Lincoln Center, which was a beautiful place to have graduation. And I was on in the car, in the cab with my dad and they wanted my dad to – he was Chief Justice of Nebraska that time, they thought it’d be nice for him to march in and he got to hood me. And he turned to me as we were in the car, I’m gonna cry now and he said, “Get yourself a mentor.” He said, “If you do nothing else. Get yourself a mentor.”    And I guess I followed that but I didn’t really reflect on it. Again, I thought, “Okay, my dad told me to get a mentor. I got a few.” So first of all, I guess the advice I would give to someone who’s looking for a mentor now is you have to do the reaching out. I mean, I think I certainly did that when I was younger. What I would say to these people is, “I want to work with you. I’ll do anything. I’ll write up your notes. Let me just let me sit in conversations with you.” And what I say to our young lawyers now is, “I’m happy to help you, but I’m not very good at reaching out. Find me. And I’m happy to get you involved in what I’m doing to help you learn or happy to have separate conversations with you.”   So I would say one of the things you need to do as a younger person or even a person is looking for mentors, it doesn’t matter what age you are, is initiate some of those conversations. Be ambitious. Look at people who are doing what you want to do, regardless of who they are, and then figure out how to learn from them. And there’s all different ways you can learn from them.    And then sometimes, though, and I think we talked about this when you and I last talked, you have to know when it’s time to fire a mentor. And that’s hard too, right? And I had two very, very influential mentors who were men over my career and so I didn’t only have women a mentors. But sometimes you get to a point, and I’ve seen this happen with people that I’ve mentored, you just get to point where they’re on their own, you wish them good luck. You might continue to work in the same firm, maybe, or they go somewhere else, and that’s kind of it. You leave it and you’ve given them what you can and they’ve taken what they can. So you get to a point sometimes where mentor wants to be too involved and you have to say to them, kindly, “Thank you. Thank you for everything you’ve done for me but it’s time for me to leave the nest now.” And that was a hard thing.    Sundae: I think it’s a breach of how you would define a mentor. Because when you start telling people what to do, you’re consulting. A mentor helps you find your answers and provides obviously direction and –   Terri: Fair enough.    Sundae: They’ve started to go too far.    Terri: Yeah. And I guess it’s that boundaries that all of us have difficulty with. And I think it’s even harder in this world where boundaries are so fuzzy. But I found it important – I always like it when people reach back out to me to say, “I just wanted to thank you for what you’ve done.” I always felt it was important for my mentors.   Every time I was in New York after I left New York, I would call up my mentor from Paul Weiss and and take her to lunch and just it was just fun to connect with her. And just kind of the wisdom I had learned from her. I once was giving a talk and I wanted to just pick her brain about something. So I said, “Let’s go out to lunch. What do you think about X?” So you have to work hard though to keep those people in your life because if they’re the right kind of mentors, they don’t stay in your life. They just don’t, they don’t. And that’s what I think part of being a good mentor is you just have to let the people that you’ve helped go.   Sundae: And that’s where I think when we spoke last, I had this idea of you should nurture a mentoring relationship and keep them in your life. And actually, what we’ve just talked about now is grow through the mentorship.    Terri: Right? I think so. And I think so.   Sundae: And start another relationship.   Terri: Yeah. Somebody else. Yes. Because I think what happens is the idea with the mentor is that you’re going to grow. Mentor sees you at often at the place you came to them and I think it’s hard for them to realize sometimes you’ve grown. It happens pretty naturally if you just let it. In a law firm for example, you’re second chairing, a deal or a case and you get to be experienced enough where you’re not working with that person anymore. You don’t need to be a second chair. You’re now a first chair. So sometimes it just happens naturally.    But I think it’s hard for a mentor often to take you out of kind of that role they first saw you in. And so my view has been, you learn what you can from them and then you move on. And mentors can go any way up and down, you can have younger mentors. You can have – when you’re younger, usually they’re more experienced. But I’ve learned a lot of things from my younger colleagues as well. There’s a wonderful saying in the Talmud, “Much I have learned from my teachers, much I’ve learned from my colleagues,” but the most I have learned is from my students.” And so, you learn something as a mentor and then it’s just time to time to bring,    Sundae: Right? So it makes me ask, what do mentors get from the relationship? And I think you’ve already begun to answer that.    Terri: Yeah. Yeah and it’s funny because I was always very interested in this issue of mentorship at my law firm and just in general. I think what you get from it is a relationship and an ability to in an informal way teach somebody your craft. What we do in my world when I work when I’m a mentor to somebody, they’re an apprentice essentially. And so you’re really trying to on how you do things. And I think what I encourage my mentees to do is to take everything they’re hearing and learning and seeing and make it their own. Figure out how to make it your own style. You’re not going to be a Terri and you’re not going to be a so and so, you’re not going to be a so and so, but your negotiation style will be an amalgam of the people that you meet.   Sundae: So I wanted to go back to advice for people who are in the mentee position, and one of the things when I was listening to you, I reflected on my younger self. And I think the advice that I would give is to slow down. I think when I was in a situation where I had these amazing people in front of me, I was very focused on the task or tasks during the knowledge. Or this skill. And in that speed in that hyper-focus, I might have missed the relationship aspect of it.    Terri: Well, I think that’s true, but I’m just wondering if that’s the way it is. I mean, I think about it, and generations are always off from one another, right? Like, all the dodge about saying to your kid, “You’ll know this when you’re a parent.” I mean, they do right? And Sundae, you’re giving good advice. I’m not sure how possible it is, right? I’m not sure your younger self could have been less focused on the tasks and more focused on sort of the people whose footsteps you were sitting at. I’m wondering if you can only do that in retrospect.   Because when I think about Judith Helpmann, who was truly the first woman Talmud scholar, I didn’t know what to do with that, except learn from her, right? So she was my first Talmud scholar, she taught me what Talmud was. And so part of it, I hear what you’re saying, I’m not sure how possible it is.   Sundae: I don’t know if it’s possibly either. This is the question that plagues me, right?    Terri: Yeah, I agree.    Sundae: So I have this project called Wisdom Fusion, it’s a group of intergenerational women from 20 to 75 plus and we’ve committed together in this learning experience and shared. And my question is, “can we come together and share in a way that we can help one person, avoid a trainwreck that others have had? Or take more out of a situation than they would if left by their own people.” That’s all.    Terri: I see. The answer to that is probably, “Yes.” Because if you had a little person sitting on your shoulder, during those times when you were sitting at the feet of these people, the person whispering on your shoulder would say, “Take her to lunch and just let her tell you about her life and what was important to her? How did she get where she is today?” Those were the things we didn’t do and maybe those are the kinds of things – that’s the being so focused, right? “I want to get my senior thesis done. I want to make sure that I learn everything I can.” I didn’t want to go to her office hours my Talmund teacher and talk to her about her life. I wanted to talk about the page we’re doing today and why I didn’t understand the commentary.   Sundae: Yes. Yes.   Terri: And so maybe that can be changed. But it has to be, I think somebody like you’re trying to do saying, “Take stock of this now, because later on, you don’t want to have missed opportunities that you had earlier.” And yeah.   Sundae: Or like that moment that I had and Dr. Karlyn Kohrs Campbell’s office where I was able to hear something from her private life that was so profound and see her in a new way. And I’m shy to even talk about this because she’s still alive, I’ve reached out to her to try to reconnect and I don’t want to be talking behind her back. So if she’s listening, I want to honor you. I’m not trying to talk behind your back. My point is, in that moment, she set a precedent for what was possible that shifted my life entirely.   Terri: So, that’s yeah, I hear you. I hear you. You know it’s almost any time you run into somebody who is sort of is a mentor in the grocery store, or you see them jogging in the morning. This is a such a funny memory. So I was in college when there was a Subway strike in New York that caused women to start wearing sneakers, and sneakers to work. And I ed that, and it was a mess. People lived all over. Nobody could get anywhere. The woman who was my professor, and my thesis advisor and it was during the strike. And I her wearing sneakers with her more formal clothes because she had walked to work from the Eastside that day. And I walked into her office, and she was on the phone with her husband asking him to take some cheese out of the freezer, because they were having company for dinner. And I thinking, “Oh my God, she eats too.” You know what I’m saying?    And I , I mean, how many years ago that was 40? It made me realize that she’s just a real person. So I guess the message is find these people and invite them to share more things with you.    Sundae: Yes, absolutely.   Terri: Right. That’s I think what it is. Identify them. Find them. Learn from them. And try to get them in some informal situations where they can just, “I want to hear about your life,” because that’s where you learn. And just ask those questions even though you don’t realize you should. I don’t you know somebody had said to me, “Take Judith Helpmann to lunch and just ask her to tell you about why she decided to become a Talmud scholar.” I would have looked at them and said, “Are you out of your mind?” But I think I think our younger generation is more brash probably and a little more willing to take some of the some of those sorts of risks and can learn a lot, so yeah.   Sundae: I think it’s fascinating. I think it’s the whole point for me is about, how do we be intentional? And how do we be intentional about nurturing a relationship? How to be intentional about, also not exploiting a relationship. One is, “How do I nurture this relationship? But then how do I not exploit it?” Because one of the things for example, in my business mentoring, would be very would be interesting because I am a coach and a consultant. And I’m also a certified Mentor Coach for the Coaching field.    So when are you asking someone for a service and when are you nurturing a relationship? I think that is interesting. The other point that I think is interesting, is when is it imbalanced, right? Because you’re busy. Even with you, I was like, “Do you have time?” I didn’t want to assume that you could hop on a call or that you would do an interview because you have so many things in your life. Can you tell me a story, maybe about a time where you felt like the mentorship was imbalanced? And a time where it felt right? Like, what did the person do? What did the mentee do well? And maybe what are the other mentee not do well?    Terri: Oh, I see. Okay. So let’s do what they did well first because that’s going to be easier for me to think about. It is so rewarding for me to see lawyers that I would say I’ve nurtured as they’ve been kind of going through seeing them progress to leadership roles. And then what I love is, when they call me to say, “I got to pick your brain about this.” I love that, right? I’m proud of them. And there’s one mentee and I have we have a call every Friday. It’s at 1:30, it’s just supposed to be like a five-minute kind of, “What are you working on? What are you working on? How can we help each other?” It usually evolves into something else, so that’s intentional. It doesn’t always happen. Friday I was visiting my grandchildren, we didn’t meet. But it was the setting of a time and she’s well into her career now. So part of it is just connecting, right? So I like that.   Sundae: What I’m hearing is you said the criteria that came out for you that I heard was: It’s intentional.  It’s predictable in of like we know about ability, if you schedule it and it’s shared in advance, you’re more likely to hold that. The third one is, it’s flexible. So if you are doing something else, you’re not going to let it dominate your day.    So, those are some things that I’m hearing from you work with that mentorship. I’ve also heard that it’s grown into , mutually because she’s well into her career. So the mentorship dynamic has also grown as she’s grown as a professional.   Terri: Yeah. And I only have one person that that’s happened with really in that way. I guess they’re doing wrong is and I’m not criticizing my mentees for this. I struggle when I work very hard with them and then they leave my firm. That’s been hard for me over the years. There have been two or three that, you know, I wish them well, I hope they do well. Nobody likes to get rejected. And so, I’m not saying they could have done anything differently. And it’s hard to know when you invest in someone at the beginning, where’s that going, right? And I’m never a person that likes to think about that.    So, I would say that I don’t know if it’s a failing or just a challenge for me to figure out how to –  and it’s not that I didn’t want them to do what they’re calling was. It’s just that you spend a lot of time investing in people and sometimes the parting is difficult.   Sundae: I hear that. It makes me think about with this idea of mentorship. We talked about both directions that you’ve said you’ve learned as well from your mentees, and that’s part of this whole thing that I do with Wisdom Fusion, I think that we are taught that wisdom is always from the elders to the youngers. Especially not true now with our technology changing, everything changing. What I’ve realized is so interesting. Those who wear mentoring me when I was in my 20s, now I’m in my 40s., like I’m a grown-ass adult now. I might have learned something and have expertise in something that now I could actually teach the people that were teaching me then. That the age difference feels big when you’re 20.    Terri: Oh, yeah, it gets smaller.   Sundae:  It gets so much smaller, right? I think people need to keep that in mind, too. Also, as a mentor but also as a mentee that in the beginning, when you’re mentoring younger people, they grow up and that gap minimizes.   Terri: Well right, and I think the other thing is, there’s this whole concept of, “Mentoring up” or, “Managing up.” I like to think that I’ve spent a lot of time trying to suggest things for other people to think about that, I don’t know if it’s mentoring or not, but it’s just trying to share what I know. But I think that’s right. It’s a whole different world now. I think it was starting to get there before the pandemic and that just like put it on steroids and now we’re there.    Sundae: And that’s why I want to have this kind of conversation because I think we need to keep looking at old topics in new ways and new topics in old ways, right?    Terri: Agreed, yeah, totally.   Sundae: How can we look at mentorship with fresh eyes, that’s, “You and I didn’t have any of this thought out in advance. We’re working through this together right now.”   Terri: Right?    Sundae: It’s also an invitation for people who are listening to think about how do they want to be showing up as a mentee or as a mentor? What are some other ways I can look at it? Whom am I selecting as mentors? Is that the best people to learn from?    So, I think it’s important, I think it’s time to just put some fresh eyes on it because everything has been shifting in might as well use it as an opportunity.    Terri: I agree.   Sundae: So do you mind if we shift know a little bit more to you? Because I’m curious, your journey, where you’ve come from to where you are now. I would love to hear, you mentioned the last few years what transitions, I have this thing called ATT, Ambitious Transformation in Transition. What transitions are you feeling right now? Regardless of whether it’s professional or personal, I’d love to hear from you.    Terri: Well, so part of it is, I think what I realized professionally was that I wanted to do more of what I like. And so I have really thought about, what are the parts of my practice I really enjoy? And what are the parts that I want to refer to some of my other colleagues? And I went so far as to revise my bio and I decided I wanted to become a mediator, and did that as well. And so I would say a  transition is to put just very specific words on it, I used to do a lot of general counsel work, which means people would come to me and I would help them with all their different things in their business. I enjoyed that, but I didn’t enjoy it so much I wanted to continue doing it. So, there are other people that I can send that sort of work to and I’m really trying to focus on the things that I really like. So which is merges and acquisitions, and helping people buy and sell businesses, helping people solve conflict within their companies, help them restructure, help them align their goals with how they want to grow. And really helping them solve problems through mediation.    What I like to say is that I’m pretty good at solving conflict as long as it’s not my own. Cobblers kids have no shoes. But I’m kind of kidding about that. But I don’t mind many people mind conflict and I don’t mind it at all. What I like to do is dig and get underneath it. So, I think the transition that I’m seeing in myself as how I approach problems, whether in my work life or in my personal life. And trying to kind of take a step back and really look at them and be more intentional about how I’m dealing with all the things that are going on in my life.   Sundae: That’s so interesting. When we think about so those are the things that are moving and changing where do you feel called?And maybe transformation does it fit where you’re at right now. But if you were to pick like, are you feeling pulled by something internal, something external, like all the things are happening in the world? Or even a performance goal. Are you feeling one of those types of transformations in your life?   Terri: Well, for me, it’s usually internal. My husband will tell you, you’ve spoken to my husband. I’m a very competitive person, it’s just part of who I am but it’s mostly internal. I compete with myself. I’m a very intense person and so part of it is sort of trying it. So it’s always internal. I would say it’s always – I’m really not driven ever by what other people think of me. Thank goodness. I’ve just never been driven by that. It’s really more, what do I want to be doing now in my life? And what do I want to be focusing on? And how do I want to look at that, landscapes?   Sundae: Right? I love that. You said, “In competition with myself,” because that is 100% how I see  it.    Terri: Yeah, yeah.    Sundae: There’s a song. This gorgeous song is called, “Da Da Ding” And I have to think about who the artist is, but it’s one of the lines in there, it’s like, “I am in competition with myself,” and I don’t know if people can understand that. People, I think often misread that is competitive with others, but not like you’re not in anybody else’s lane.    Terri: Like, “What do you mean I can’t do that?” Well I’m trying to – if I want to do this, how am I going to do it, and if I’m if I think I can do it then gosh darn it, I’m going to just go full steam ahead and try and get it. And get it done.    Sundae: Yeah, you’ve obviously proved that to be true.   Terri: Yes, I guess.  Sundae: Yeah, yeah. So when I talk about ambitious transformation, for me and then this might be similar to you, it has to be your own definition of ambition outside of the scope or scale of someone else, right? For me personally, I always give the example that doing less is ambitious for me.   When we’re recording this, I’m trying to calm down in my business for nine weeks because I have a lot of other things IN TRANSIT in my life right now, including a global move. So doing less is ambitious, and it’s like every day, I have to wake up and say, “It’s okay. You’re not doing more,” that’s the hard thing for me. So what is ambitious for you right now?   Terri: Yeah, that would be ambitious for me also. I’m probably not there yet. What’s ambitious for me? I’m very focused on my Talmud – do you want me to tell you specifically?   Sundae: Or just generall, whatever makes sense.   Terri: Well, I have some new things I’m really interested in that I want to pursue, like I said, I’m a lifetime learner. So, I want to do more mediations. I’m developing some – I keep looking for a study source I want for my Talmud learning and I can’t find it anywhere. So I said, “You know what, I can do this.” All the pieces are there. It’s just a matter of putting them together in the way that will help me as I’m learning because it’s such a very fast-paced kind of study.    What’s ambitious for me is to also think about how to take more time? How to be less distracted?   Sundae: So interesting. So right now, what is it that you’re working on with intention that you’re excited about right now?    Terri: My husband and I have a place in Israel, and we can finally travel there again. So, I’m excited about kind of spending more time there and trying to kind of see what that’s going to look like. So yeah. And spending time with my grandchildren.   Sundae: So wonderful, thank you so much. Thank you for being here.   Terri: My pleasure.   Sundae: Just reflect on everything that we’ve talked about today. It’s been interesting to focus on this idea of our own personal, professional transformations, and the roles that people have had, that are either intentional and clear or people who’ve come out of or come into our lives in ways that we didn’t realize would have such a profound impact. So I love that. My ask or invitation for the listeners is to think about what you and I did, Terri, the first time we spoke, is to go back and look at who are the people that you have been mentored by, whether you have it or not yet. Because that’s meaningful and I think it gives us something.   And also, I think if you are a mentor, be mindful of how you have shown up for other people intentionally or consciously or not, that has been meaningful. The other thing, what I did right before we got on our call is I looked up my mentor from my thesis. And I’m so grateful she’s much older than she was then when I met her and so am I. And I’m grateful that I reached out and said, “Hey, I have something I want to tell you. About 25-30 years ago,” and so hopefully she’ll get the message. I actually teared up when I wrote that message because I want to make sure that she knows the profound impact she had on my life.    Terri: Right. Well, that’s the thing. I don’t think the people who have had a profound impact on us will ever know to that extent. And anytime we can tell them I think it makes them feel wonderful.    Sundae: Yeah. So that’s my homework assignment for everybody listening.   Terri: Excellent.    Sundae: Okay everybody. Thank you for listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae bean. I am so grateful you’re here. I will leave you with the words from Simone Sinek: “A mentor is not someone who walks ahead of us and tells us how they did it. A mentor is someone who walks alongside us to guide us on what we can do.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 294: The Mentor Exchange with Terri Krivosha appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

“Listen. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business.” (Condescending smirk.) So goes the biggest lie ever told; a statement that’s often used as a permission slip to be ruthless.  And almost always uttered by someone who holds power to make a decision that adversely impacts someone who doesn’t have power.   If you blend your work with your ion, you know how fortunate you are, and the outcome is very “personal.” Similarly, if you’ve ever worked in a toxic environment you can vouch about how that negativity-filled “business” cloud follows you home. Your joy and energy don’t distinguish between the two.   I’ve openly shared how I’ve consistently relied upon the guidance of coaches and mentors throughout my entrepreneurial evolution. I champion trusting those who’ve been there before and not doing it alone, and I’ve followed that advice.   It’s also no secret that I’ve spent the past few years (and will continue!) actively implementing antiracist practices throughout my company’s operations. And this week, I’m ed by my coach in equity-centered leadership, Trudi Lebron, to kick off our business and mentorship pod.     By the time Trudi was 16, she had two children and had dropped out of high school. With the odds against her, Trudi earned her B.A., then her M.Sc., and went on to build a million-dollar coaching and consulting firm. (Oh, and her Ph.D. is in progress.)   Today, Trudi is the CEO of Script Flip, LLC, the creator of The Institute of Equity-Centered Coaching, and the author of The Antiracist Business Book. And it’s my absolute honor to have Trudi share some of her brilliant wisdom for responsible leadership because any alternative will no longer suffice. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The gift of taking the elevator up Managing outcomes instead of people Sharing your weekend plans for intentional downtime How NDAs contribute to a culture of silence & control A lobster appetite on a fish stick budget Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: How do your organization’s intercultural practices measure up? People will continue to expect more from their leaders and the companies that empower them. I can help you be a pacesetter. Let’s chat already! Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Trudi Lebron – Website Trudi Lebron – Instagram The Antiracist Business by Trudi Lebron & Arlan Hamilton The Institute of Equity-Centered Coaching Script Flip, LLC Liberatory Leader Mentorship by Trudi Lebron   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: Business Remixed Podcast with Trudi Lebron We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, it is 10:00 pm in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. And I’m actually really IN TRANSIT right now as I sit in a temporary apartment as we just landed in Switzerland. And in addition to being in transition, I am on a mission to help you adapt and succeed through any life transition.   One thing I’ve realized throughout the years is that you never know who will walk into your life and completely change it. I just had this conversation with one of my sons this morning about the importance of relationships and mentorship and what started as a simple informative one and a half hour workshop turned into a year-and-a-half mentorship and it has been transformational for me. And I don’t mean transformational in a sense of you go to bed a caterpillar and you wake up a butterfly. I’m talking about a slow one. One that is cell by cell, one by one, and is still ongoing and so much further to go.    So it is my absolute heartfelt pleasure to have my mentor in Equity-Centered Leadership here today and the author of a recent hit: The Antiracist Business book, Trudi Lebron, welcome to IN TRANSIT today.    Trudi: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.    Sundae: It’s been so incredible to get to know you and to watch your journey and the impact that you’re having in so many people’s lives. I’m just so excited about the work you’re doing because it is literally changing the trajectory in which we do business. And specifically for me, when I watch the coaching industry. So it’s so amazing to watch you walk with integrity, and live everything that you teach.    So before I get into more with you, Trudi, I’m going to say more for our audience, who isn’t as familiar with your work. Trudi LeBron is the CEO of Script Flip, LLC and the creator of The Institute of Equity-Centered Coaching. By the time Trudi was 16, she had two children and had dropped out of high school. As you can, imagine she says, all odds were against her. But that is not the case. Trudi today runs a million-dollar coaching and consulting firm helping entrepreneurs and coaches, build antiracist businesses and become equity-centered coaches, and as well as leaders, through her certification programs, consulting packages and executive coaching.    Trudi holds a BA in Theater, a Master of Science in Psychology, and is currently ABD in a PhD program in Social Psychology. Needless to say Trudi is the real deal.    So Trudi, it’s so wonderful for us to connect. It’s been a few months since we’ve spoken. I have mentioned this to you before, but I want to mention it to the audience as well. It’s kind of a behind-the-scenes thing that happened for me when we started working together and it says something about this idea of transformation. When I started working with you was originally around coaching, right? In of how to show up during this crisis. And then I did It’s called AIM, a six-month program, where we dissected Whiteness, we looked at liberatory leadership. We looked at, how to show up more equity-centered in our work, and then you and I end up working one to one.    I don’t know if I shared this with you, but when we were doing AIM, I was in a very old mode of like, show up to class ready to learn. I wanted to study, I wanted to learn the material. It’s like, “We’re not going fast enough. How do you know what can I memorize? Let me get the good grades.” I just noticed that impatience. Not not not strongly but I noticed something quiet inside of me and then that’s something that you did talk about in our work together. And what dropped for me during that first phase was the importance of this work being embodied.    Trudi: Yeah.    Sundae: Right. It’s all in your head. It’s like in your cells. It’s in your heart. It’s in your body. And that was a totally different kind of learning. I think I was finally ready for that, and that is transformed also how I show up for my own clients. Giving myself permission and helping them create space for that more embodied, slower, less cognitive learning. So I just wanted to share that with you. That’s where that transformation began with me, but your work is about transformation. I’m going to read an excerpt from your book. You said, “The solution is that we become antiracist leaders, entrepreneurs, executives, coaches, service providers, workers, and creators. It’s that we see our work as a piece of the puzzle to creating a more equitable world. A world where a person’s life outcomes are no longer statistically predictable by their race and their zip code. It requires a transformation of the way we do business.”    So Trudi, how did you go from your childhood upbringing to being someone transformational in the business space and coaching space?    Trudi: I think, for me, it was being raised in a home where my mom was very justice-oriented and worked in nonprofits, and I was literally raised in nonprofits. I would go to work with my mom. I would take all the summer camp programs and all the after-school programs and literally every program that this agency offered, I kind of was raised through it. And I didn’t know anyone who had had their own business. I only knew people who work in businesses and who were leaders in nonprofit spaces. That and like teachers, were was only people I knew. And so, I grew up thinking that I would probably work in the nonprofit world, and I did for a long time, and I really started to bump up against my dreams, honestly, right? My mom used to pick on me all the time because she would say that I had a lobster appetite and a fish stick budget.    Sundae: *laughter*    Trudi: Because we grew up lower-working-class people. Income unstable at times, you know, all kinds of things. And so – but I wanted a big life. I wanted to travel. I wanted to have nice things. I wanted a dress in like fancy clothes. I just wanted to eat at fancy restaurants. I don’t know where those things came from. Probably just TV, I didn’t know people were doing it. And then the reality of working in nonprofits, working for very little and realizing that I had invested all this time and this education which was the thing that I was betting on was gonna pull me out of poverty. I had these two kids, that was it. If you grew up in the 80s, you were sold the tale that you just graduate from high school, go to college and everything’s going to be okay. And I just was like, “Oh, that’s not true,” it’s not.    And so I had to start to learn to make money on the side to supplement my income. And so when I was in college that looked like being a teaching artist and driving all around the state and teaching theater classes. And then when I was in, working in nonprofits and had accumulated a good degree of experience and education, it was consulting and going into places and training. And I started to realize how much money people were actually making, who were successful in consulting and training. And so I started listening to podcasts and thinking about lifestyle design the mid 2000’s or people are blogging a lot and podcasting is like becoming popular, and being exposed to a whole world of entrepreneurship, of online business, of personal development. All these things and realizing a couple of really important two really important things:    That the world of online business and personal development was really incredibly innovative and aligned in of the things that I wanted for my life. But really missing some critical components around justice and equity, things that I had been doing for years at that point. No diversity, very little People of Color as leaders in the space, and that was an issue for me. And then kind of another side of that.  And then kind of another side of that. The second thing that I noticed was that all of these wonderful principles around online business and personal development were not like I wasn’t seeing them in the nonprofit world. So really good business strategy around like, innovation and being lean, and all of these things were like, just not but the nonprofit world are very much like, “This is how we’ve always done it in. This is just how it’s going to be.”    And wanting to be a bridge, wanting to kind of help people. Because at this point, I was starting to see some success with my consulting practice and I wanted to help some of my friends., locally, people that I have been working with for years who were people with master’s degrees and all this experience, all this professional experience, and curriculum designers and wanting to help them be able to start their own businesses. But knowing that they were not going to go out and do that because they thought that making money was bad. They thought that business was so complicated and hard and I was seeing that that just wasn’t the case. And so I just wanted to take some of the best of what I was learning from this kind of start. ip entrepreneurship world that I was being exposed to and bring it into the social justice field and vice versa.    I wanted to take some of the principles around social impact and equity and inclusion and injustice and I wanted to bring it into the business space because I just saw so much opportunity for that exchange of ideas. And that’s where, yeah, that’s kind of where it really started as just wanting to do that. And then the more I leaned into entrepreneurship, to online business, to coaching, to personal development, it was consistently reinforced that the issues with diversity, equity and inclusion were so prevalent. And that I also had this really unique intersection of experiences that positioned me really well to be one of the leaders driving that conversation. Yeah and I just kind of went  all-in.   Sundae: That’s wonderful. No, it’s wonderful and so important, right? Because when I think about, when we learn strategies, let’s say for business owners and then we share with our clients, we’re actually replicating the bias that is handed to us, And one of the things that you do really well is saying some of the strategies that are recommended to be successful in business just don’t work for everybody.  And I think we have a responsibility as business owners, as service providers to do justice for people’s integrity, for people’s humanity. And that diversity life experiences and that is what I think. And you outline that really well. In the book, I’m going to plug the book many times shamelessly throughout this podcast. You haven’t asked me to but I will do that gladly because you mentioned that in the book about what is missing in the conversation. And so if people are missing in the conversation, obviously there Is important elements of the conversation that are just unspoken and–   Trudi: 100%   Sundae:  Totally. So that’s why I think you do so well. And what I love about your life is you talk about radically imagining a world that’s different from what we created and you’re doing it.    And the other thing that I’ll add is that when you’re trained in like adolescent youth development, non profit work, program design, all of these kinds of things, in particular, diversity, equity, and inclusion. You start to ask questions as part of your regular practice. Like, what are we not seeing? Who’s not at the table? What are we assuming? And this decision, this real practice of inquiry that was so natural that when I started to be more in business and entrepreneurship, I was bringing those questions that hadn’t been asked. And so what happened is that I became this filter, learning things from people who didn’t have that kind of experience and asking those questions myself and filtering out. Like, “Okay, this is the stuff that’s really embedded in whiteness and toxic capitalism, and oppression and exploitation. But here are the lessons that are worthy.” That if we start to like, add some of the other things that we know, we really get something new and that it would serve way more people.   Sundae: Right? That’s wonderful. So you mentioned, a few concepts there and I think so everybody is on the same page will be important for us to have a shared definition of some of them. One of them is Equity, right? And the other Antiracism. We can talk about Toxic Capitalism and Liberatory Leadership in a little bit. But let’s start with some of the basics. Do you mind just giving your definition of those two concepts?    Trudi: Yeah, so Equity is about the things that we do to help people get to the same place. And so I like to talk about equity in contrast with equality, which is something that we are all very familiar with. Equal is about everybody getting the same thing. Equity is about helping people get to a place where they have the same thing. Because just because you give people the same thing doesn’t mean that they can use it the same way or that that’s going to get them to the same places.    What we know, if you know more than two people in your life, you know that not every strategy works for every person the same way, right? Some people need a little bit more to get to the same place. So equity is all about the things that we do,  to help people and to create environments and systems where people can get to the same place. And often times, on a grand scheme, the same place, this idea that we live in a world where people’s outcomes are not predictable by their race and zip code means that we all have access to a life where our basic needs are more than met. That we all have housing and education and food and all of the things that we need to just have good lives. Enjoyable lives. Yeah. So that’s what equity is all about.    And then, so Antiracism, is the things that we do, the practice that we have, the ideas that we perpetuate that help to dismantle racism.  Anything that creates a situation where People of Color are disadvantaged and there’s so many applications of that. Just about everything is influenced by White supremacy and racism. But so antiracism is about the antidote to racist beliefs, and action and philosophy and ideas.    Sundae: So it’s not just not being racist, it’s not right dissipating in racist systems. It’s actually dismantling racist systems. And I think just so everybody’s on the same page, one thing that I’ve noticed is not everybody has the same idea of what White supremacy means. So White supremacy, when some people hear they think of white hoods and Ku Klux Klan but it’s way, way beyond that. Can you give us a quick definition of that?    Trudi: Yeah. And thinking of the white hoods and Ku Klux Klan, that’s a manifestation of White supremacy, right? Those are behaviors and practices that people take on because of White supremacy. White supremacy on its own is the idea that White people are just inherently better, smarter, stronger, more worthy of protection, more worthy of ideas. And that everything that comes from White folks is better. And is the norm and so, everything else becomes judged in contrast to a culture of Whiteness.    And so that is, you know what I love about that description is that if we allow it to – now, White supremacy is a huge issue, right? And if we can think about it in this way that I just described, it actually takes out, I think some of the anxiety around it. I think it can just be this very practical thing. It’s like, “Oh, all it means is that we are advantaging or placing in a hierarchy, placing White people and White culture and White ideas ahead of everybody else.” That’s all, that’s what it means. And then all of the other things, all the violence that comes from it, really just comes from this idea that “White folks are better.” And there’s been so much across our history to reinforce that and to – I mean we’ve had whole sciences at one point that were created to try to convince people that White people based on their skulls or whatever were smarter. Just lies, lies. But that has so much ramifications in our history. Also that’s what white supremacy is.    Sundae: And I want to just add in of often times, completely unconscious.   Trudi: Oh yeah.   Sundae: You think it and you don’t think it. It’s somehow embedded subconsciously and as an interculturalist, I going through that process of like, “Oh being on time is a cultural construct.” Punctuality, we just decided that five minutes was the polite range, other cultures decided 15 minutes or four hours was the polite range, right? And we see that. We can accept that globally when we travel. “Oh yeah, they do it here. The way they do it there.” But when it comes to something where it feels part of our identity can feel really threatening, but the same ideas apply, some people got together and agreed that this is the right way.    Trudi: That’s it, right? Yeah. And the other thing is that, even when this is a great example, even when folks – because you don’t have to be a White person to buy into White supremacist ideas, anyone can. But the idea that when we go, let’s say you adopt that punctuality as like the standard if you go somewhere else and you say, “Oh, that’s just how they do it here,” and you accept that, you still are kind of putting this, you know, “We do it the right way.”    Sundae: Yes.    Trudi: “And here, it’s different, but it’s not but our way is actually the right way.” It’s usually not like, “Oh, we’re different.” Like I am the one that’s different. Or maybe there is no right way, maybe they’re all just different ways and what we should be doing is being in a relationship with people when we schedule meetings to talk about like, “What’s the buffer here?” It is time-sensitive, is it, you know, like being in more close relationships so that you don’t bump into some of the issues that people face when they’re holding someone else to a standard that is really just a personal preference.    Sundae: And what do you agree on as an intercultural community. Yeah.   Trudi: Exactly.    Sundae: Yeah, we could talk about that the entire time there’s a lot of layers there. I want to go a little bit more into your book and how you talk about antiracist business, specifically. Well, one thing I want to just mention is you talked about when we have processes that are let’s say antiracist or equitable. When we do something that sort of creates fairplay. The image that you and I talked about in class was looking at a baseball field and how high is the fence and what do you get to stand on to see, the tall person has anything to stand on but the shorter person does. When we make accommodations that are equitable, actually everybody benefits.    Trudi: Yeah. Everybody benefits. So the way that I talk about this in the book is I’d like to kind of give this metaphor of an elevator, most people have been in an elevator. Elevators are required in most places and buildings that are over two stories high, commercial buildings, especially, so that people who cannot go up and down the stairs can get access to the upper floors. But everybody takes the elevator. It’s not only for people who cannot go up and down the stairs, everyone takes the elevator and in fact, having the elevator in the building so that everyone can use it if they want to use it or need to use it improves the experience of the building.   And that is the case I think across the board. When you start to think about building a company, a business, an institution, whatever size, even a non-profit,  really anything that gathers people. When you start thinking about how people will engage in the space and what you’re going to need to provide so that they have equitable access that they can fully participate, it makes the experience better for everyone because everyone now can be contributing at a capacity that they wouldn’t be able to contribute if you had these like inequities. And I think that that’s you know, when we look at any of the data around companies that are diverse that have better outcomes and better problem solving with it. There’s all this research around the benefits of it. What is true is that you get that – you only get those kinds of benefits when the environment isn’t just diverse but that is equitable, right? It’s not just that people showed up. It’s that people are contributing. And so if you don’t have an environment or if you only have an environment where people get to show up, but they can’t contribute you don’t get any of the benefits of having that diverse equitable space.    Sundae: Absolutely. And that’s very connected to the point that you make about business is personal.    Trudi: 100%    Sundae: And we’re taught that it’s not, right? I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve been in with people who say, “Well, it’s business. It’s not personal.” And you break that down. You look at that myth and debunking. Can you share just briefly about what you mean when you say, “Business is personal”?    Trudi: Yeah. It’s just business, it’s not personal is probably, the biggest lie that is told in one of the biggest most frequent lies that is told in business. Because we look around all over the place and we see that that is just not true. There is evidence that that is not true everywhere, right? So, for example, we do things in our company’s, a lot of times when people are starting businesses, they’re building businesses based on a ion or a personal thing that they feel connected to. And so they want to go out in the world and solve a problem or fill a gap in the market. It’s something connected to them personally when they’re building a team, they’re looking for people who are not just skilled, but who they are going to like to spend time with, who they believe in. We get to know our colleagues. We know our colleagues’ partners and children. We ask about the weekend, right? We go and make business deals over dinner after talking about all kinds of personal things.    So business is extremely personal. Also, the implications of business are personal.   Sundae: And when you show up, it’s only personal because it pays your bills, feeds your family.   Trudi: Right! 100%.   Sundae: It helps fund if you want further education like there’s nothing more personal than that.    Trudi: There’s nothing more personal than that and that when we hire employees, especially if we’re paying people full-time salaries and benefits, and vacation time, our decisions are very personal for that, for the team, right? So the environments that we provide for them are extremely personal. If you’ve ever worked at a toxic work environment and you go home, you know that that is having a personal effect on like the rest of your day and how you’re able to show up for the rest of your life. If you’re in a toxic work environment.   Alternatively, if you work in a place that’s very liberatory and open and flexible and connected, it impacts how you’re able to be in the rest of your life. Business is only not personal – I have consistently seen this. It is only not personal when someone who holds power is making a decision that negatively impacts someone who doesn’t have power.    Or someone is being advised to do something – and I hear in the context of coaching like, “Oh you have to make that decision, don’t worry about it, it’s not personal, it’s just business.” It is said, I think the intent behind it is to ease the tension for the person who has to make that decision because they know that the decision that they’re about to make is going to have a personal effect. It is exactly personal. And I think, I don’t think that we have to abandon the personal relationship of business to make hard decisions. If you have a business or if you’re a leader in business, hard decisions is part of what we do, But because we have perpetuated this myth that business is not personal, I think it gives people permission and a little like – a little bit more of ruthlessness around choices that they have to make and it gives them a cognitive out. It gives them this out that they’re like, “Oh, I actually don’t have to worry about that because that’s not my responsibility, it’s just business.”    Sundae: Right. Absolute.   Trudi: What if we didn’t write, what if we say, “Oh, this is personal. I still have to make the choice.” But how does that impact the way I show up for that choice? How does it impact the way that I communicate about that choice? How does it communicate? Or how does it impact the way that I create a buffer around this decision to lessen the impact for people? If we allow business to be personal and if we see the personal impact and kind of personal relationships in our hard decisions, we show up for them differently.    Sundae: Yep. Totally. We allow humanity.    Trudi: 100%.    Sundae: Absolutely. So I think you do the same thing when we talk about capitalism, that when people criticize capitalism, they’re not actually criticizing capitalism. They’re criticizing toxic capitalism.    Trudi: Yes, yes.    Sundae: And because capitalism, like you said, “How about just commerce? How about we just buy stuff and trade stuff and give money and value?” Because I think when people hear the word, when they talk about capitalism, there’s fear there, like, wait a minute. So my father helped get me through college, thanks to trading services, you know what I mean? So people take capitalism so personally, so, can you tell the difference between, when you say, when people talk about capitalism and they’re attacking actually toxic capitalism, and what you mean by just commerce?   Trudi: Yeah, I totally get, the feelings around capitalism. It is complicated. And of all of book that chapter the took the longest for me to write because of the research that was involved in that chapter and because of the work and intention that I wanted to put into translating because, it is a lot of language. There’s a lot of words and a lot of policies and a lot of things. And what I was able to distill is that basically capitalism is a terrible word because it includes way too many terrible things that are not– oftentimes that are not similar, right?    So capitalism can be and is just an individual person’s ability, like legal to start a business and charge. Just that. Just understand that that is not the case In some places. That you can’t just open your doors, hang the sign, and just be open for business, that’s not the case everywhere. So the fact that we can do that, that those of us who can, that we are able to is a function of capitalism   Wonderful things. The wonderful opportunities. Now, the problem is, is that people’s ability to consolidate well and exploit other people, and not pay their fair share, not contribute to society in ways that other people are, that is also a function of capitalism. So, when people say, “Oh, I can’t stand capitalism, capitalism is the root of all evil,” It’s the idea that we do have laws that allow some people to exploit other people.   I just think that it’s really important that we’re clear on the parts that we want to that are most insidious and that we are clear about the protections and rights that having an economic system, that allows us to start businesses and take care of ourselves independent from the state, that there are good things in that.    So, this is why I’m a pretty firm stance on, I don’t identify as an anti-capitalist. The problem with anti capitalism I see it – is that it doesn’t solve for some of the social problems that I personally am most concerned about.    So, for example, just if we, threw capitalism away and went to another economic system, we still would have racism. We would still have White supremacy. We would still see disparities. I certainly don’t trust and have no reason to trust that if we change our economic system to one that is more socialist in nature that we still wouldn’t have people exploiting their power. I’ve no reason to, it is actually likely that we will continue to see that.    Sundae: I’ve seen that in Europe, I’ve seen very socialist societies economically have great examples of obvious racism, right? So you’re right. That is not the economic system that would automatically change another operating system. And so say just commerce, like it’s just Commerce. It’s just an exchange of services for value.    Trudi: And that idea of just commerce is both this practical exchange of goods and services, right? That is important. But also this bigger – I imagine it and this is something that I say in the book, that there’s an element of this. And this is very inspired by the work of Adrienne Maree Brown who says that, “People who are engaged in liberation work that there’s an element of science fiction to it because we’re imagining what these things could be.” We’re taking from what we know and but best practices and we’re like advancing work forward. We need a quantum leap, but while we have, in of our tools is to make progress one step at a time.    And so what I’m kind of future casting is this idea of just commerce potentially as an economic system that centers justice and creates an opportunity for people to have businesses to make money, to live, to do all the things that we need to do with an economy but are measuring the success of that economy by a whole holistic sense of indicators that would include, sure how much money is moving around the economy. But also what are the racial disparities embedded in that? What does our education system look like? What does our criminal justice system look like? How is that impacting our economy? So looking at having a way bigger perspective on evaluating the health and wellness of a nation where, yeah, we’re looking at far more than just like the stock market, you know–   Sundae: What, I think when I look at that and I look at the detail, what I’ve learned with our work together and then I see what you mention in the book that as a solopreneur individual business owner, it’s more, like, “What are some of the practices that I’ve just accepted that are actually toxic?” Let’s just say, like an NDA, we’re like a silencing agreement of you can’t work for this person afterwards, or you can’t do this or you can’t say this. That is more on the spectrum of toxic and less on the spectrum of the human side, Right?    Trudi: Totally.    Sundae: And I’ve been in situations where people that have worked for me, were unable – we couldn’t work together for a period of time because they said they couldn’t work for this person and that person and it restricts someone’s employment opportunities.    Trudi: 100%. And some of these are like, so oppressive. I’ve seen cases where people were asked to sign non-competes, pretty broad non-competes for a number of years. And in some cases it’s tied to like a severance package. Like, if you take the severance package and for two years you can’t work in this field. And if you can’t work in the field that you’ve invested your education in like what are you to do?   It’s nonsense. I think that those kinds of things are rooted in some of the worst parts of us.    Sundae: And that’s, and that is where until you question that you just accept it. Like, “Don’t ever work for my competitor,” right? Like, don’t work in the field, which is hard. So that’s – I think It’s important.  And I want to just make sure because I know our time is kind of getting a little bit tight here. I wanted to make sure that we talk about your bigger vision, just briefly talk about “Liberatory Leadership” and that kind of encomes what all of this is about. Whether it’s a business or you’re a service provider or an NGO. How do you define liberatory leadership?    Trudi: So again this is one of those areas that is really formative, right? And so I think about Liberatory Leadership right now as this way of being, a style of leadership and style of organization that centers not only your own liberation but the liberation of other people. And so what you seek out – and so to people who are in for me personally and people who are engaged in this work, very intentionally, the questions we’re asking is like; How do I make decisions about my business, about the way I work in my business, the way my team works in the business, that maximizes opportunities for people to maintain their agency and their self-determination? AND that still allows the company to function at this high level and to fulfill our obligations. But that the environment doesn’t have to resort to toxic oppressive practices. Workplace practices in an effort to contain quote-unquote control like the team.    And so, one of the things that I think about is; How do we manage outcomes instead of managing people? How do we create schedules and ways of working that allow people to kind of take care of themselves during the day? Whether those that have kids at home or appointments. How are we most flexible while maintaining just this high degree of like – without compromising the way that we function. And continuing to call into question and really think about; Why am I making decisions the way I’m making them? Where did they come from? What am I assuming? Just continuing to bring that inquiry into the way that we not just lead our  businesses, but also lead our life.   Sundae: Absolutely. And my guess and I would love to see some research on this over time. My guess that those who are working within a liberatory leadership framework are more committed, more engaged, maybe healthier, maybe stay longer, retention. My guess is that when you allow someone’s full humanity that they show up more at work, it’s that simple.   Trudi: I would make that guess as well. I think what’s hard about it is a slow process, right? And so again work because of a culture of Whiteness that really prioritizes and privileges and kind of holds up as the standard. This like hustle culture, the fastest person to win the race, whoever can make the most money the quickest, leverage, everything being efficient. That all there are parts of all of those things that can really interrupt equity and really rest on practices that do lean into that, like exploitation, oppression, power and control, ways of leading and they’re so normalized. So normalized. So liberatory leadership is about being in the practice of undoing all those things and finding more ways to work and lead and motivate others and create business systems that allow for that kind of maximum agency and flexibility.    Sundae: I hope that we look back on this in 30 years and go, “I can’t believe that we used to be there.” I hope that it’s just like a no-brainer. And 30 years when I look at history, 30 years is nothing. But I’m hoping that you see a shift and I think because I’ve lived in the European context for a long time, I know it is possible to live with so much more balance. I have seen that. There’s always these jokes about the out of office notices from someone in Europe is, “I’m camping until September, see you later,” and in the US it’s like “I’m having kidney surgery but you can reach me on my phone.” I know there’s different ways of doing it but we just all have to we have to have systems in which were given permission to do that.    Trudi: Yeah. And for the leaders, I just want to say that the part of this that really like requires good, intentional leadership is that this way of being has to be architected, right? So, for example, I was with a client recently who was talking about vacation time and their team and how someone on their team never takes vacation time, and I was like, “Well, what’s your responsibility in that?” As the leader of the company, you can ively say, “Okay everyone, we want to work-life balance and make sure you put in your vacation time,” really ively. Or you can sit down with your team and say, “I don’t have vacation time requests, it’s mid-year, from you, you, and you, I need those today. Let’s sit down and look at our calendar, figure out when this is going to happen.” And like really leading that and creating the space for it and ing people’s decisions. It’s not enough to say like, “Oh yeah, I want people to use their vacation time.” You actually have to go in and people in executing it.    Sundae: It’s so much more. There’s so much more nurturing I think because you are nurturing a culture, you are creating it is a culture and we all have to shed what we bring with us as expectations from a place of fear, from a place of experience, from a place of our own cultural norms. And I think that’s one thing that as a leader in my own company, I had to learn, I have to invest there to nurture that culture in my community. I can’t just recruit well, I have to then create culture once we’re there.   I want to make sure we have a couple minutes to just focus on you for a second. One of the things that I always do with guests is ask about their own places of being IN TRANSIT. And I talk about ATT which is Ambitious Transformation in Transition. I’d love to hear from you. Where are you IN TRANSIT right now in your life and your work or wherever you feel like sharing?    Trudi: Yeah, so I just announced a year-long transformation project actually. And so what has become clear in the last couple months is that I really need to move into a space where I have the time to invest in like creative projects and more idea generation, more writing, instead of being so embedded in the day-to-day of the company. We’re just kind of at that point. And because I’ve seen people go through this kind of transition where you know the demands on their time are increasing, their company is growing. And what sometimes happens, I’ve seen that the number of times, is that they get the entrepreneur, the leader of the company gets too busy and all of a sudden it seems like they’ve disappeared from their company. And they’re not like seeing clients anymore and they hired a bunch of staff.    And so that can often leave people feel like the rug was pulled from under them like that they maybe they bought something thinking one person was going to deliver it and they didn’t. Or the person is so day-to-day and operations of the company that If they’re gone, now, things are falling through the cracks and they just didn’t realize how much of an impact that would have. So I know that that’s where – that’s kind of what it’s happening.    And so, instead of just seeing what happens and riding it out, I’m being really intentional. And so I’ve told people, I’ve written to our community, email community. I’ll be talking about it a lot this year is that I’m going on a one-year transition plan. So that the fall of next year, actually, September 11th of next year, which is the 10 year anniversary of the company that I am going to remove myself from the day-to-day operations, and teaching in our certification program.    So right now, I deliver a lot of the teaching in our coach trough. I see a lot of clients during the week still. I’m very involved in our consulting clients and I want to reduce the number of hours I spend coaching within a year by like 70%. Between 50 and 75% of my coaching hours, coaching, teaching facilitating will be cut. So I’ll have about 25% of what I do right now that will be dedicated to a mentorship that I run called the Liberatory Leader Mentorship. And so I’ll continue to do that and a couple of strategic kind of coaching partnerships with our bigger, more complex projects.    And then we’re going to kind of train our, not train but transition one of our team into more of an operations director role to kind of run the day-to-day. We will add some teaching staff to our – add faculty to teaching. So that’s a big transition that I’ll be navigating. And that I really want to do transparently over the course of the year.  So this year will be a lot of that, a lot of work, a lot of all hands on deck, and then I’ll take 8 weeks about, at the end of the year. So once we have like a big 10-year anniversary celebration and then I’ll take two months off. And when I come back again, it’ll be in that role of visionary, creative, strategic thinker. Still CEO but with someone who’s really kind of running the day-to-day operation so that I can be thinking about growth and doing more speaking and writing and things like that. So that is yeah, that’s a year-long transformation that were just kind of rolling off.   Sundae: It’s a lot. So what are you doing to shape that? So it’s going in the direction that you envision for you personally, a person?    Trudi: So what that looks like is we’ve rearranged this our schedule so that I have so that we have really clear times that I’m like teaching with clients. My availability is like really clear and then we have the days that I’m not. That the task is going to be that when I’m not that the team tries to run things without me. So putting these scaffolds in place, communicating with clients, to set the expectation with clients, really over serving the clients that we’re going to have this year, because the idea is we’re about to graduate our first class of students, officially. And so we’ll have some of those people are going into, just a couple of people who’ve been through our program are going into a fellowship so that they get mentoring and training to become faculty . So really having this intentional training of people to be able to deliver the content with this clear intent that they’re gonna take over these classes. So that’s a big one.    Also, being really intentional about my downtime. So I started something a couple months ago, where I email our community every Friday and I’m like, “Hey, here’s my weekend practice. This is kind of what I’m doing.”    I’m reporting out on, if I worked too much or plan to work. And what’s great about those that people have started to write us back and share what they’re doing on the weekends, and just having again, being really intentional about how we’re spending time. Because there was a couple months ago where I was like, “Oh I’ve worked every weekend for the last few months.”    Sundae: That’s too much.    Trudi: And I just wasn’t being intentional about it, right? So yeah just increasing the intentionality around capacity and space. Planning to do more, train the trainer type activities this year, and really getting clear with the team on what are the things where they have ownership in power, what I don’t need to be involved in. And really training people to think, to understand how I make decisions so that they don’t have to ask me to make them so that they just kind of have more of a roap to decide and how to make decisions not the way that I would make them but in a way that is aligned with our company values and what the company requires them to do.   Sundae: That’s massive. So the one question I was going to ask is what’s considered “ambitious” for you right now and for me, that whole story feels very ambitious.    Trudi: It’s ambitious, very ambitious. It’s a little scary too because it’s ambitious technically, right? It’s a big lift and then like emotionally, there’s this part of it that’s ambitious that is going to require me to really trust a system, trust the system that we build to continue to work without me. And I think in coaching, this world that we live in, that we work in, it’s so easy to build something that just becomes all about the personal brand of the person. And the intention was always that this company would be something that was team led. And although there are things happening in my life that are definitely more – that kind of live in like the personal brand thing, essentially what we’re talking about over this year is separating my personal brand from the company brand. There’s some ambitiousness around just the emotional part of that, I’m gonna have to let some things go.    Sundae: Trudi, you’re like the head chef of a high-quality slow food restaurant.   Trudi: I love that.   Sundae: You’re so intentional in the selection of your ingredients. What you’ll be serving people, their experience, the quality that comes out of your kitchen. So to speak. That’s what you get. And I think you have such a unique combination of the equity lens, and the business lens, and the coaching lens that I see why you do consulting in other fields as well, because that adds so much value, long-term sustainable impact.    And this is something I didn’t say to you. When I started reading this book, I actually teared up and it shocked me. I was like, surprised, like, “Why am I tearing up? I’ve read this material.” But I think what it was is I realized that our work together changed the trajectory of how I show up with the people that I lead inside my team, with my clients and how I want to engage, also with other businesses. And it is one of those changes that, like I said, it’s not a caterpillar to butterfly overnight. It’s one of these small cellular things, but I know in 5 years, in 10 years, the trajectory has been shifted for me.    So I just want to thank you for that as well. It’s really amazing what you’re doing.   Trudi: Thank you. Thank you.   Sundae: I know that our time is coming to a close. I’ll make sure that people can find your book and your podcast and your site and your coaching resources in the show notes, but please go ahead and tell people the best way that they can learn more about you and your work.    Trudi: The best way is to come and hang out with me on Instagram. So come follow me on Instagram. Send me a DM. I check my DMs and respond to them. Definitely, the best place to come and just start to get familiar with the community.    Sundae: It’s wonderful. So thank you Trudi for today. It’s meant the world to me to have you here,    Trudi: And thank you for having me.    Sundae: Thank you for those who are listening. This is a lot if this is new to you. If you are new to this context, I encourage you to check out Trudi’s book, her podcast, or Instagram, all of that, and hang out in the space. You’re going to learn a lot in a way that is truly transformational.  You’re here with me Sundae Bean with IN TRANSIT. And I’m going to leave you with a quote that I found at the start of Trudi’s book by Angela Davis. And I know it’s something that Trudi lives by based on what I’ve seen. “You have to act as if it were possible to radically change the world and you have to do it all the time.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 293: Responsible Leadership with Trudi Lebron appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

I’m about to say the quiet parts out loud. You probably suspected it, but now, you’ll know for sure, and you might not like what you hear.   What if I told you that exposing your kids to a few specific experiences could… DOUBLE their chances of heart disease or cancer, create a 7X higher likelihood of alcoholism, and increased their risk of attempting suicide by a staggering 1200%?     A long, long time ago, I started this podcast because I wanted somewhere for the globally mobile community to transparently discuss expat life. And that meant shining a light on the hard stuff, including the consequences that come with choosing a life abroad.   Parents have a duty of care. We know this, yet regardless of our GPS coordinates, we worry about screwing up our children. What’s often ignored? Organizations who send families abroad also have a duty of care.    So today, I’m ed by two childhood trauma researchers who’ve studied this exact impact. For the conclusion of our Untold Stories Bean Pod, it’s my honor to welcome Lauren Wells and Tanya Crossman to reveal their results about adverse childhood experiences for globally mobile kids.   Many of us who raise our children abroad do so because we know it enriches their lives. Still, much of what Lauren and Tanya will share may surprise or even concern you. Don’t worry, we got your back. Because they’ll also provide preventative remedies to help us our children, anywhere and everywhere. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Calming the imagined “what ifs” Understanding secondary trauma The provision of physical & emotional safety Self-deprecating internal message replay An ambition to maintain Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Not all transitions are created equal. For both parents and kids, the level of should match the level of challenge. Go from fragility-increasing to resilience-building. Partner with a trusted global coach who gets you right here. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Misunderstood: The Impact of Growing Up Overseas in the 21st Century by Tanya Crossman54 Lights Podcast Rai a Generation of Healthy Third Culture Kids, The Grief Tower, and Unstacking Your Grief Tower by Lauren Wells TCK Training   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: Adverse Childhood Experiences – Harvard We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, it is 1700 am in New York, 1:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 6:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean being recorded live from my childhood womb home in Williston, North Dakota. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition. What if I told you that exposing your kids to a few specific experiences could result in a two times higher likelihood of developing heart disease or cancer, seven times higher likelihood of becoming an alcoholic, and an increased risk of attempted suicide by 1200%? If you were like me, you would run away from these experiences as fast as you could. But the thing is when we are living complex lives, when our lives are IN TRANSIT, some of those things we can control, some of those things are out of our control. These experiences might impact our lives and today. I’ve invited two guests to help us understand what kind of experiences we’re talking about. And how we don’t have to shy away from even hard things because there are things within our power, how we can ourselves and our kids. So it is my heartfelt joy to welcome Lauren Wells and Tanya Crossman today on IN TRANSIT. Welcome. Lauren: Thank you so much. So good to be here. Sundae: So happy to have you. Thank you. I’ll give a quick introduction. For those of you who don’t know your work, I’ll start with Lauren. Lauren Wells is the founder and CEO of TCK training and author of three books: 1. Rai a Generation of Healthy Third Culture Kids 2. The Grief Tower 3. Unstacking Your Grief Tower Lauren spearheaded the methodology of Prevented TCK Care that TCK training was founded on. She also uses personal experience as a TCK in her education and childhood development to TCKs. By the way, for people who don’t know what a TCK is, it’s a third culture kid, someone living outside of their parents’ port cultures and for those who serve them. She’s worked with over 1,000 parents and TCK caregivers, and has trained staff from over 80 organizations. Lauren grew up in Tanzania, East Africa and now lives in the USA with her husband and two daughters. We’re also ed by Tanya. Tanya Crossman is a director of research and education at TCK Training and the author of Missunderstood: The impact of Growing Up Overseas in the 21st Century. Tanya has 17 years of experience and counting working with international families and has worked with groups from over five continents. Conducting research to learn about the experiences of children growing up globally is part of her work. Tanya grew up in Australia and the US, and has lived in China and Cambodia. As an adult she’s fluent in written and spoken Mandarin and she currently lives with her parents in Australia while waiting for papers to her husband in the USA. I feel like you’ve been waiting forever, Tanya. Tanya: Yeah, it does feel like forever. Sundae: All right, both of you do know what it means. As you can see, from your bios to live life IN TRANSIT. Both of you have experienced as a child growing up, where your lives were defined by being IN TRANSIT. And now, in your adult life, you are ing others. Thank you for the work that you have done your contributions in your writing and in your training, you are doing a service to so many families around the world. So I’m just want to say that to start off. Lauren: It is our pleasure. Sundae: So let’s dive in here, I want to talk about what you call Aces or ACEs. These are childhood adverse experiences. And can you help us understand what does that mean? And why is that important for people who are living highly mobile lives? Lauren: Yeah. So ACE stands for Adverse Childhood Experience and this is a framework that people have used for years and years. There have been over 80 studies done on ACE scores. So it’s a really well-known framework that’s been used worldwide and it looks at three different categories, abuse, neglect, and household dysfunction. And within these categories, there are specific factors and all totaled up, they equal 10. And so when we About an ACE score, it’s the number of those out of 10 experiences that they’ve had. So for example, sexual abuse or having a parent with a mental illness that’s directly impacting the family. Those sorts of things would be those ACE scores. Sundae: Okay, so when I hear that and I know that those categories are not present in our immediate nuclear family, Why should I still care? Tanya: When we think about those 10 factors, those 10 types of difficult experiences, there’s a few in there that we don’t realize quite common. Two of those experiences were more about the kids perception of their growing up. So we talk about emotional neglect and physical neglect. We’re talking about a child’s perception of safety, physical safety, and emotional safety. So; Did I feel loved, special, important? Did I feel that my family was connected and ive? Did I feel secure that there would be food on the table? And I would have clean clothes to wear? That someone would be able to take me to the doctor if I needed to go? And so it’s about how secure they felt in that provision of emotional safety and physical safety. So perhaps their parents did love them but if they didn’t feel loved and important, special, that would count as an adverse childhood experience. Sundae: So can I jump in here with a story? And actually, when you said about whether they feel safe, my eyes welled up. I don’t know if you could have seen that on the video, but I’m all emotional about it, I’m throwing pens over here. So what happened when you said that is I was walking down the street. This is really tapping into me as a mother and I can it’s taking me off guard because I didn’t expect this, but I was walking down the street with my son, we had left West Africa. I in West Africa for those who followed by journey, we had a wonderful time there. We loved living in Burkina Faso and Ouagadougou, but we had to leave because there was a terrorist attack. This has been after a political uprising and attempted coup d’etat. And then we got to South Africa, we lived in a gated community the safest community in the area, right? Like probably in Southern Africa, it had an amazing reputation for safety. And I was walking down the street with my son and he said, “Mom, I don’t feel safe here.” And I said, “Honey,” he was under 10, I said, “You don’t feel safe here?” I’m like, “Look at this amazing space. We’re totally safe.” He goes, “You want to know why? We don’t have a guard out front.” So he didn’t feel safe in South Africa because it’s a gated community tons of space to run and drive and bikes etc. But in Burkina Faso where he was one when we arrived, we left right before he was four, we lived in a space where there was a guard in our home, right outside of the door, right by the gate. And it wasn’t because it was super dangerous. It’s kind of what you did to be a good patron while you were there and someone to sort of facilitate any traffic in and out the house. And I thought, “My kid doesn’t feel safe because we don’t have a guard out front of our house.” And people who learned that we had a guard in Burkina Faso thought, “Oh my gosh, your kids must feel so unsafe.” So the reason why I bring that up is I think my kids have grown up in a space where we’ve cared for them and loved for them, but their perception of safety is not up to me. What they made that mean, if your one to three is the coolest guy in the world is the guard that plays with you in the front yard by the sandbox, right? And now he’s gone and now you’re in this all this open space. So I don’t know. I think that’s important. Tanya: I heard that story so many times. All the kids would go to America and feel so unsafe because they weren’t fences and there weren’t compounds an confused the parents. Sundae: It confused them. And I want to say that because if people here in the very beginning think, “I don’t need to listen to this because we don’t have abuse in our home. Our kids are safe.” And they stop listening that you might be missing something if you grow up in this highly mobile international community. So say more, say more about all of this. Tanya: Well, the other thing is, if you don’t think it affects you, even if your family and your kids are completely safe, their peers might not be. Which means they’re going to be hearing about it in their community and in their friendships. And so even if it doesn’t touch your kids directly, knowing what’s happening in the community around them is really important. So that you know how to talk to them and how to their friends when things are happening in your community. Sundae: Can you give us an example? Tanya: Well, we’re going to give you some statistics in a minute and when you start hearing those numbers, think about how many kids are in your circle, in your kids’ class at school, and therefore what percentage of them are affected. So even if your kids are safe, chances are their friends aren’t all safe. Yeah, just like something to keep in mind. Lauren: We looked at secondary trauma a bit in our research for that purpose because that’s something that we had heard about a lot when we were even debriefing TCKs that maybe they didn’t experience sexual abuse but their friend confided that in them and no one else. And so that was something that they were carrying that was really difficult. And so it’s important to recognize that because the stats show that it is high in our TCK community, whatever these ACE scores are it will impact, maybe not only them that the people around them as well. Sometimes we need to know the protective things that we can do, that would even alleviate some of those things. Like what you were just talking about Sundae, like with your son, we talked about helping kids to know what is in place and what is the plan. So what is in place that would keep you safe? “Well, we have this gate and this gate only lets people in who have the right ,” or whatever. “And that is why we have locks on our windows and we have locks on the doors.” And what’s the plan? “If something did happen here is what we would do?” I think first, any of our TCKs and just kids in general, they’re thinking, “Well what if? What if that does happen?” And it doesn’t help for the parent to say, “Well, it’s just not going to.” They need to be able to say, “Well if it did, here’s what we would do, here’s the plan.” Tanya: So when we’re talking about numbers and percentages, what we’re talking about is research that we did ourselves because we couldn’t find the numbers anywhere. So we went and did it ourselves. And we surveyed 1904 people who grew up with a globally mobile childhood. And we just got together their ACE scores. What adverse experiences they had and aspects of their demographics. So how often they moved. How much time they spent overseas. What kind of reasons they had for mobility. And what kind of schooling experiences they had. And a whole bunch of other things. And we put together a white paper, and we’re working on a second white paper now, looking at some of these sorts of specific factors that have gone into what happened for them. And some of the things we found were what we expected. Some of the things are a bit more shocking and we wanted to spread some of that information so people can be prepared because one of the biggest things we’ve found is that a lot of this is associated with mobility. And a lot of this is associated with parents under stress and so ing parents is super important because parents who are not being cared for themselves, can’t give kids what they need. Sundae: So important. Can you share more some of the statistics and the things that you learned? Tanya: Yeah. So to begin with one of the major comparison points we use is a big study that was done in the US with 17,000 Americans. That was kind of our benchmark to compare the rates that we were seeing. Some of the other bigger studies that have been done were kind of comparable, some had lower numbers than what was in the American study, like healthier numbers. So we use that as a benchmark when you look at these decades of research, when you have a score of four or more out of 10, you are at high risk. Those negative consequences that you listed at the beginning, Sundae, those happen, those risk factors are there when you have a score of four or higher. Now, 12.5% of Americans have a score of four or higher, In our survey of globally mobile people, 21%, had that score, that high risk. That’s one in five who are at risk of all of those things that you’re talking about. Then when we look at different groups, different sectors, different types of education, it was fairly similar. But the biggest takeaway from the survey was that when extreme mobility was part of the picture, when people were moving frequently. So moving location 10 or more times before age 18, moving house 15 or more times before age 18, that risk went from one in five to one in three had that high risk ACE score. Sundae: I’m counting. 1, 2, 3 4, 5. I’m counting in my head how many times have we moved as a family and have we reached 10? The other thing that I listening to an interview that you did and hearing that: Why does this matter to our community? Our, meaning, the ones who are connected to the globally mobile community. Why does that matter to us is because it’s defined by high mobility. And what I also learned from your research is, it’s also defined by a lack of preventive care mechanisms in place. Tanya: I was a business kid, my family moved both within Australia and overseas because of my dad’s job with IBM, and we got zero resources other than financial and practical. We got plane tickets. We got money for a house. But that was it. I had never heard anything like culture shock or reverse culture shock or re-entry or Third Culture Kids or global mobility or any of that. I had no language. I had no training. Neither did my mum, neither did my sisters, none of us knew any of this. And so, it wasn’t until I was in my mid-twenties, late-twenties and working with young people in China and doing research into their experiences and I went, “Oh, that was me as well.” And I’ve heard that story over and over again that so many families don’t get any from the organizations that cause their mobility. Sundae: And that was what was important for me is this is where I get on my high horse. I’m like, you have an ethical responsibility, if you are putting your people in this context to care. Isn’t that called “duty of care?” Tanya: Yes, yes. Lauren: Yes. Sundae: Duty of care. So it’s like if I work for the military and I’m going to put a soldier out there, right? I’m going to send that person a way for R&R to keep their central nervous system grounded, There are certain industries that have duty of care and I think mobility is one of them, and I’m going to go off on my high horse because if you – Tanya: Oh, we are right here with you. Sundae: If you only think that people live exotic lives abroad, that this is like something super fancy pants, watch your child cry when your parent leaves, where they’re not even making sound, right? Watch that departure. Watch the taxi leave. Be by your kids at night when they are now ripped away from their friends and family because something changed, whether it was a corporate mandate change, something political change, some structure change. And now that child who is let’s say 12 and that apex of needing friends and family, intensely is now grieving. That is an impact from the mobility and we need to take that seriously. And I am living that with my family and I’m a specialist, right? I have all the tools I have the people at my fingertips and it’s still hard. Tanya: Yes. Sundae: Right? So everybody who is left off on their own who don’t even know about this. It’s like, that’s not responsible. Lauren: And what we see. So, anytime the ACE score percentage, like we talked about is higher than that 12 and a half percent of the CDC study, that we were referring to as our control study, in the United States, anytime there’s a people group that goes above that 12 and a half percent, they’re considered an at risk vulnerable population. So foster children for example, would fit in that category children who are growing up and impoverished cities would fit into that category, but we don’t often think of our TCKs as an at-risk vulnerable population. But I think if we did, we would care for them better. I think if we did there would be more resources for how the care is done, when, like we said, when companies, organizations are sending them to do that life, we should be caring for them, well, because we are causing that. Sundae: Hmm. Absolutely. Tanya: So true. Sundae: Oh. There are moments when things are hard and as a parent you’re like, “I’m out! I’m done!” Or you wonder if you’ve made the right choice. I still am deeply committed, I do not think that high mobility is a death sentence. I do not think it’s damaging your kids. I am completely on board with if you your children and like you said yourself “Well, that it is totally worth it.” So what do we need to know about preventive care? In our own maintenance of ourselves and for our kids? Lauren: Yeah, so this is my favorite part to talk about because this is where the hope comes in. We talked about all these scary things and people say, “Well then, sounds like raising TCKs is a terrible idea,” and all of us here know that they’re amazing benefits that come from that life. But we can’t tap into those benefits if we’re not healthy and we’re not doing well. And so we love the ACE framework because not only have a lot of studies, many research studies been done on the ACE scores themselves, but there’s been a lot of research done on what can happen in order to mitigate the impact of those aces in adulthood. So even if we can’t prevent those things from happening, what can we do to provide a buffer? I like to think of it as like bubble wrapping your child. How can you bubble wrap your child so that they can get through the hard things without damage? And so we look at these positive childhood experiences, they’re called, Pieces, as a framework that we use for that. We call those our protective factors. Those are our bubble wrap and there’s seven of them. I won’t go through all of them. But it has to do with things inside the home and then things outside the home. So, inside the home, it’s that they feel safe. They feel loved and cared for. They feel like they are a priority. Outside the home, it said, do they have a peer group that they belong in a multigenerational group, where people know them and love them? That there are community traditions, that they look forward to doing with those peers. And that multigenerational group, those things are all really critical for buffering our kids. But in the IN TRANSIT life, sometimes those things are hard to maintain consistency. And so we need to be intentional about how we’re doing that. When I work with families I often will go through those pieces with them and they’ll say something like, “Well, our kids don’t have friends because we live on a compound. There’s no other kids here. So how can we just them for the rest of their developmental years without them having friends?” Well, that doesn’t work. They need that. That is a positive childhood experience that they can’t just be expected to grit and bear it through and hope that they do well in adulthood. There are so many things that come from that. And so even looking at those as a framework, for what do we need to make sure we are aiming for as a family all the time. So if we don’t have some of those in this moment, how are we aiming to find those in our new community? Tanya: And to give you a sense of why this matters so much, some of the research has been done around Pieces, they looked at kids who had, well the adults who had these high ACE scores but who also had high pieces. So if you had six to seven of the pieces in your childhood, even if you also had high ACE scores, your risk of having depression or poor mental health overall dropped 72% and you were three and a half times more likely to have healthy social and emotional as an adult. Sundae: That is incredible, right? So I was just with my kids at dinner and we were celebrating their first six weeks at a new school system, new language, new country. I mean, they’re studying foreign languages, in foreign languages, right? It’s a big challenge. And being the nerdy interculturalist I am, I’m like, “Let’s celebrate this milestone. Let’s acknowledge what’s hard.” You know, round the table. And they’re like, “Mom, it’s not that big of a deal. We get it.” They were like, “We know this is hard. We’re celebrating it. Can you knock off ing us?” It was so sweet. It was such a sweet recognition of your kids will stand in their own power when they know that they’re ed from the outside, I just think I want to pause for the listeners for a second. That is so important, that the impact is mitigated by the preventive care, by the things that we can do. And I’ll even speak for someone who grew up with very little turbulence in a childhood life. I also didn’t have the opportunity to build skills to navigate adversity until I got older and I was away from the of my family. So as a parent, I am always routing myself in the knowledge of, “If my kids go through hard things now, with my ,” I always say to my kids, I’m like, “Whatever level of challenge you’re feeling, we’re going to match it with the level of ,” So if you’re getting this much talent will give you this much . If you’re getting – I’m doing my hands of the video but on audio, you won’t hear it. If I give them level 10 level of challenge, I’m going to give them a level 10 of and I think that gives your kids a chance to build their own resilience in a safe space, Tell me where I’m wrong, I would suggest maybe even ing a kid in a way that goes beyond growing up without adversity, without mobility, without bumps because then they have never had a chance to develop their skills. Tell me where I’m wrong. Lauren: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. I think we see that constantly that resilience building happens through hard things when hard things come and we have the like you said that matches, those hard things, so that we can get through them, it turns those internal narratives into, “I can do hard things, I can get through this. I can make it, I am strong.” When though, those hard things keep coming, and there’s nobody there and it’s at those times that they feel lonely and isolated, and like, “I’m not loved,” and they’re not ed, that each of those hard things knocks them down further. And what we see is that those internal messages become really self-deprecating. They turn into things like, “I am weak, I am not okay, I’m not,” whatever it is. But there’s internal messages, don’t become resilience-building – they become fragility increasing and that doesn’t help them in adulthood. And so, we talk about adult TCKs being resilient and that being a trait of adult TCKs as well. Sometimes we see that but sometimes we don’t so it’s not just that they went through hard things, it’s the that they had during it. Sundae: And that’s what I get triggered. When people say – oh, I noticed this as a mother as well, when people who don’t understand say, “Your kids will be fine. Kids are resilient.” And like you are not right here right now, and we can’t just throw our kids into the cold water, the hot fire, unless we’re there to give them, like I said, the that they need. It’s not just doing hard things, unattended, builds resilience like you said, it’ll destroy them. And I always say this, “Resilience is built.in community.” Tanya: Yes. Yeah. And the other piece is so important about this is that we can’t expect parents to turn around and have Limitless energy to match their kids needs unless parents are getting their needs met. When we look at the three ACE factors that are the highest in these mobile kids that we surveyed, all three of them to us reflect the parent’s stress and needs. So the three that were particularly high are: Emotional abuse, Emotional neglect, and Parental mental illness. So emotional abuse and neglect were four times higher in third culture kids and they were in our American controlled study. And parental mental illness was two times higher. And now that tracks, there was a study that came out 10 years ago, that showed that expats were at two and a half times the risk of depression and anxiety as domestic workers. And then when you look at the emotional abuse and emotional neglect, when you’re looking at that rate, that is not that half of expatriate parents are bad parents, that’s the parents are under stress and do not have the resources they need to give to their kids, when their kids are also under stress, in these lives of transition. I think we have to come at this with a lot of grace for parents who need themselves. We need to take the stigma away from needing help and asking for help. Whether that’s counseling, whether that’s groups, whether that’s parenting tools, and help. Whatever it is that works for you and that you need get that help. We, like you said, we each other in community. Nobody can do this alone. Sundae: Absolutely. I think and this is so interesting when I think about it, what I tell people all the time is if If I ask you how you are and you say I’m fine, I don’t believe you Tanya: That’s wisdom right there. Sundae: It’s like, “I know too much,” you know? Like, I just know too much about how hard things can be. And I know in my own transitions, in the work with my clients, with the work of my coaches. It’s like, I know the real deal. And I love that you talked about in the stigma away and that same framework of let’s match the level of with a level of challenge, it has to apply to us as parents too. Tanya: Exactly. Yeah, I had a friend. I was working with on a project just last week, said someone came into her office and said, “How you doing?” She went, *sigh*, they were like, “That bad?” and she’s like, “Wait, I can act better than that. I’m a better actress than that. I can put on my happy face.” And she’s a counselor, right? And it was this is tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment that we do, we act fine. And especially in the last few years when there have been these extra weights and pressures on top of what is already often a stressful work environment, life environment, parenting environment. When you’re living lives IN TRANSIT, when you’re living lives of cultural complexity, we’re so good at acting. But if we don’t take that mask down and get the resources we need, we can’t parent, we can’t be part of our friendships and communities and families. We can’t give and receive at the level that all of us need. Sundae: Absolutely. And that’s why I’ll make sure that in the show notes, they have access to your books, your community because it’s frankly a trajectory changing experience for you and for your kids. Something important and worth taking seriously. So we’ve talked about the risk. We’ve talked about the preventive measure, and the critical relationship between taking care of ourselves as caregivers. And I’m not talking just parents teachers, who are working with mobile kids, psychologists, counselors, everybody who cares for this community. And how we need to seek that matches a challenge. I wouldn’t mind now turning to a– Tanya: Can I just pop in there? I’m not even a parent, right? And but even just as a partner having transition and being IN TRANSIT is stressful just out on a couple. And you need external help just to be the present for each other alot of the time. Even when I was single, when you’re part of a community, helping each other and being part of each other’s lives, you don’t need to be in a nuclear family to need help, to be part of your community. There is no point at which, “Now I deserve to get help.” Actually in so many ways being single was more difficult because I had to take full responsibility and ownership for getting all of the things done. I didn’t have anyone to do that with. And so I think often there’s this expectation that it’s so much easier when you’re single because you don’t have to do all these things, you have all this extra spare time. Well, no, because there’s only one of me to do all of the things. So like I said, if we can take the stigma off, we all need help. And we all community. Sundae: Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you. I think that’s important. We’ll say it louder for the ones at the back. I want to focus on you and your own transitions. Obviously the work that you do probably impacts your own lives in direct and indirect ways. I don’t know if you don’t mind, I’d like to hear a little bit more about the transitions that you’re feeling right now. And are you in a phase where you would feel more like an internal or external transformation? I’m curious Lauren, what about you? Lauren: Yeah I think on two different levels, on a macro-level and a micro-levels. On a macro-level, we moved from South Carolina to North Georgia in January. So we’re not too far from a year that we’ve been here and so that transition it has been a really good transition. And also like any transition, there’s been bumps along the way. Internally, I’ve been working on building community and letting myself build community because sometimes it’s easy to, especially for those of us who all have careers, it’s easy to just do the career and be busy doing the career and thinking well that’s fine, that’s efficient. But really spending time building community is super important, but that definitely takes some internal motivation. And then on a micro-level, I’ve been traveling a lot the last month and a half. I’m here in a hotel room right now. This is trip number four in five weeks and so it’s just been a busy travel season. But I go home tomorrow and I’ll transition back into the routine of being a mom and taking the kids to school and packing lunches and all that. And that’s always a tough transition for me of I am this career person coming and speaking and staying in a hotel room. And that’s a very different thing than like, oh now I have to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every single day and have been. So both are important jobs, they are important work but that transition is, it is tricky. It’s a hard one. Sundae: And so what do you do to shape your own processes? As you’re transitioning between these identities, between your roles? How do you use your own preventive care to do that? Lauren: Yeah, I definitely reach out to friends to just kind of verbally process. We use Marco Polo, I don’t know if you all are familiar with that tool, but it’s phenomenal when you have people all over the world, which I do. And so trying to just kind of verbally process is really helpful for me. Also, just getting into a good mental space. As far as this is all important work. It can be easy to think, “This is where I’m saving the world,” and then at home is where I’m doing things that are significantly less exciting. And so to try to mentally that this is also so important. And caring. well for my own family is more important than telling other people to care while for their own families. And I need to just constantly that that looks way less shiny than it might seem like it should. Caring well for my own family means wiping snot off my kid’s nose or whatever and that’s still doing that good work of caring for your family well but it’s yeah. Sundae: I always say my glamorous life. It’s like a good day when it’s only snot, you know what I mean? Lauren: For sure. Sundae: So what is what is ambitious for you right now? For some of us it’s doing less, for some of us is doing more, or something completely different. How about you Lauren? Lauren: Yeah, so it’s funny that you say that because when I read that question I thought, “I don’t know that I have anything good to say,” because right now, I’m doing a lot of maintaining the things that have been started in the last three years. But then I was thinking, well, it is also ambitious to just maintain and keep doing the good things well, without continually adding new. So that’s where we’re at right now. Tanya: Can I just say I find that hilarious because I look at the goals that the company has and I think they are all incredibly ambitious. We just think so differently. Sundae: Tell us about you, Tanya. What transitions are you feeling right now? Tanya: All of them. So Sundae made a comment earlier about it’s been forever apart from my husband, it has been two years and seven months since my husband and I lived in the same country, continent. So yeah. Almost exactly. Actually tomorrow will be exactly two years and seven months. Yes. So we have seen each other for six months of that time in 2-3 months windows. One in the country he lives in. And one of the countries I live. Neither which was the country we were living in when the pandemic started. So yeah, we lost everything. We lost our country, our home, both of our businesses, all of our savings. And so it’s been an incredible season of everything getting pulled out from underneath you. And so, when I say everything, I mean everything, everything is some transition and especially for me because I’m in the country we’re not staying in. I live in constant limbo of if I got papers tomorrow I would leave. No, I won’t because the whole thing is a debacle and it’ll probably be another year before I can go over if I’m lucky. But there’s still this sense that you can never settle. And so all of the strategies that I’ve developed over the years, no longer applied and I found all the strategies for self-care and for looking after my mental health, and for community, and for , and for settling in a new place. And for transitioning. well, and for arriving, none of them applied and none of them works. And I crashed. And I’ve had to completely relearn how to be. And so transition has been, has literally been everything, it’s been read learning life. And I’m a person who’s always been sort of internally led in transition. And I’ve gone into a season where my entire life has been shaped externally and having to respond to that has been. just paradigm-shifting. Sundae: That’s exactly what I was thinking. Thank you for sharing that because I know that you’re not alone, I know there’s a lot of people who are listening and for you to give voice to that, I think is really important because it’s often hidden. Tanya: Yes and probably because it’s so hard to articulate that. I couldn’t articulate that even six months ago probably. And I was just interviewed for a piece that was on NPR this week and talking through it with the correspondent who created the piece. She said, “Talking to me was really interesting,” because I had answers to questions that none of the other people she talked to did because I’ve been in this for so long. I’ve had time to think through and articulate so much of the process because yeah, I’ve had two and a half years to get my head around what I’ve done, what I’ve not just been through, but being in because I’ve stayed in it. Usually, you don’t stay in limbo this long, I’ve been in it so long, I’ve had a chance to develop in this place and it has led to a lot of personal growth, not easy, or welcome necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad growth. Most growth is good. Sundae: I always say that we often confuse learning and growth, learning is what we choose to do. And it feels safe. And growth comes from the outside in and it is uncomfortable. It’s hard. So what have you done in all of this to shape this transformation that you’re going through right now? Tanya: I have tried to make good choices and a lot of that has been around my health. I have a lot of chronic health conditions and so doing my best to learn how to deal with that. The things that I have control over and the things that I don’t. But also my mental health, so recognizing that I’m in depression. And that the depression I’ve dealt with my whole life, my strategies no longer worked. Well if my strategies no longer work, I need help from the outside. So I’ve seen two or three different psychologists or counselors in that time. I’ve had an incredible GP, medical doctor who has helped me with that. I’ve been on different medications. I’ve gotten all the different kinds of help I need. I’ve used all of the different apps to connect with different friends in different countries because everyone uses something different. Marco Polo is one of those, Lauren. And just not being alone in it. I’ve also relied very much on a being an auntie. When I was first stuck here because I was stuck. The border closed and I couldn’t go home. I was on a business trip. I wasn’t even planning to be in this country, but I have little nieces and nephews, they’re currently two, four, four and a half, and six and a half, and they are adorable. And they love me and I love them. And when I was stuck in that first sort of six months, a year, I felt guilty, if I felt happy, because how can I be happy when my husband’s on the other side of the ocean? It just felt like a betrayal. But I could always be happy around them. It was always the right thing to spend time with them and so I really leaned into family into spending time with them and being an auntie and they kept me in the moment, present. They keep me present because it is very hard to be thinking about something else when you have a four-year-old tugging on your skirt or demanding five more books. So it’s leaning into what is good in this season and what keeps me present in the moment has helped me grow so much. Recognizing some of these negative thought patterns I had because I can’t hide from them anymore. And choosing to lean into it. Sundae: So that’s amazing. That’s why since COVID my thing is been, let’s make this the best worst thing that ever happened to us. Tanya: Well, we just talked about the least worst decisions we’re making. The least worst decisions. Like, we don’t have any good choices. So we’ll make the least bad one. Sundae: These are beautiful new world strategies, right? It’s so good. Tanya: What is the best worst thing? I’m going to add that to my vocabulary. Sundae: What is ambitious for you right now, Tanya? Tanya: Um, ambitious for me is balance, it’s just ordinary balance. It’s feeding myself regularly without my husband looking over my shoulder because he’s the one who notices when I skip meals. It’s getting up from the computer and stretching, instead of sitting down for six hours. It’s setting mini goals, not just, I want to get this project done but okay, let’s break the project down into pieces. It’s balancing the work I want to do for myself and the work I’m going to do for my job, and the time I want to spend with my family. And yeah just balance and daily life and being present. And for me, that’s really ambitious. Sundae: It’s very ambitious right now. It’s beautiful. Thank you so much. I’ve just enjoyed being with both of you so much today. Thank you for your time. I think we’ve hit some really important messages that I hope people come away with because I know we all believe in this so much. Tanya: We do. We can all get on that soapbox together. Sundae: I can’t help it, man. What I think I’m taking away today personally is I’m re-committing myself to ing families. The parents, I always think about the help that I do is directly to the adults, right? I don’t think I serve family, so to speak. But today, when I was listening and I think about the work that I do with the adults I work with is actually in directly serving families and I hope that any organization that has who are in this space of mobility, they see that investing directly in the adults or in their families through , even if it’s something simple like a book or offering programs, like all of us offer, that they see the bigger picture in that. So thank you for that. All right. I will wrap us up. Your books are our mirrors. For those who have lived this life, they are eye-openers for parents who are monocultural and haven’t, and they are strategic handbooks on next steps. So definitely check it out. I was thinking about the quote I wanted to end on which I usually do. And the one I wanted to choose is from Jordan Sarah Weatherhead. And it was the quote, “Because when it comes to my offspring, I will fight with the fangs of a wolf, and the claws of a dragon. No one or nothing will stop me from protecting them.” That is the quote I wanted to choose but that is from the protective place. So instead I landed with a more balanced quote from Doug Slanders. He says, “No parent can childproof the world but a parent’s job is to world proof the child.” And I think that is a little bit about what you’re talking about through your work and the preventive care and the we can give them. So thank you, everyone. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time on IN TRANSIT.   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post EP292: Adverse Childhood Experiences with Lauren Wells & Tanya Crossman appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Moving to a different country takes guts. Especially when the destination has a difficult reputation. But have you ever noticed how the same geographical regions are adversely targeted by the news? Red meat for their base.   It’s against our natural bend to let our imaginations ruminate on the positive. Before our recent move to Switzerland, people would look at me with trepidation when I told them I lived in South Africa. When in reality, it was a cherished, overwhelmingly positive experience for my whole family.   I’ve also spoken to many expats who’ve moved to complicated countries, and they’ve said, “I’m so glad I went and didn’t let gossip influence my decision.” And sharing these favorable stories goes a long way to counterbalance toxic energy.   It’s my honor to have Kondwani Mwase us to continue our Untold Stories Bean Pod. Kondwani is an entrepreneur, podcaster, and accomplished marketing professional. No stranger to life IN TRANSIT, Kondwani was born in Ethiopia, resides in Canada, and is a proud citizen of Malawi.    His heartfelt podcast, 54 Lights, showcases the culturally textured Africa that’s often negatively stereotyped and unfairly painted with broad strokes. The number 54 represents the continent’s different countries.     By introducing audiences to fresh perspectives, Kondwani offers an alternative to mainstream depictions of Africa and its people. Today, Kondwani shares what inspired him to bring these lesser-known narratives from dark to light, and his ambition to be a little bolder. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The great global helium shortage Relief after deciding to do something courageous Vulnerability of dissolving the work/personal barrier Bringing your whole self into everything An identity that’s cobbled together Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Are you part of an organization whose 2023 goal is to transition from cross-cultural to intercultural? Let’s talk!    Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project 54 Lights Podcast Kondwani Mwase – LinkedIn     We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, it is 12:00 pm in New York, 6:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 11:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean being recorded live from my childhood womb home in Williston, North Dakota. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   The late great Maya Angelou made the following famous, “A bird doesn’t sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.” Today’s guest has created a platform in which we can hear the songs of others from the individuals themselves. It’s an opportunity to hear songs of strength, resilience, and inspiring journeys. So, before we dive into these stories, I’d like to welcome today’s guest Kondwani Mwase, welcome to IN TRANSIT, Kondwani.   Kondwani: Thank you so much for having me, Sundae, it’s a privilege to be here and I’m really excited to be on this platform of yours. And from your childhood home.    Sundae: Yes, I was saying before we went live that I had to hide the creepy monkey and Kermit the Frog and Cabbage Patch dolls so people wouldn’t be distracted from the episode. So for those who are watching the video live. But if this is on the podcast, you’ll have to go to the video and I have a look at the images in the background of my mother in a beauty pageant from like the 50’s or 60’s and our childhood farm from the late 1800s. That’s like a bonus of watching the video version.   So let me tell a little bit more about Kondwani before we dive in. Kondwani is an entrepreneur and accomplished marketing professional with over a decade of experience in the fields of engagement, loyalty, and communications. You can definitely see that in this podcast. He is a true believer in the power of standing in solidarity and is the man behind 54 Lights. This is the show that we will talk about in more detail today.    It is a wonderful podcast, a showcase for African accomplishments and engages in conversations to introduce audiences to other perspectives and sheds light on untold stories. And Kondwani is no stranger to life in transit. He was born in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia, he resides in Toronto, Canada and he is a proud citizen of Malawi.    So Kondwani I am really excited to learn from you today and to share your story and others. But before we start I want to just say to my audience, one of the reasons I wanted Kondwani to be on here is because I just have podcast envy for his voice. So I was like, “Oh, he’s got a great podcast voice!” So it’s great our listeners get to enjoy that today.    Kondwani: I’m not too sure that’s true. But I really appreciate that. Hopefully, it’s the mic. It’s all about the mic.   Sundae: *laughter* So let me tell the audience a little bit about 54 lights. I love the vision, it offers an alternative to mainstream depictions of Africa and its people. It celebrates resilience, strength and extraordinary journeys of the guests. And what I’ve heard and learned from you is that it’s through these untold stories, it is your aim to change the stereotypical narrative that persists from dark to light. So, say more to our audience about the story behind the podcast, and what led you to the project.    Kondwani: Yeah, and thanks for this platform again, Sundae and I think you captured it in that in that intro, is that I’ve always had a bit of a mixed identity, if you will, or cobbled-together identity. Born in Ethiopia as mentioned before, my mom is actually from Zimbabwe and my dad is from Malawi. And even like a lot of Malawians, he was born in Zambia. So, it’s this sort of like hyphenated existence that I have. And I made my home in Canada right now. So there’s no question that I have this Canadian flavor to who I am as a person. I can’t reject that nor do I want to. But what I found, really, really interesting in talking to people throughout my life was people would talk about, “Hey, I’m going to Europe, I’m going to , I’m going to , I’m going to Paris. I’m going to London,” and they would talk very specifically about places that they were going. And in contrast, in stark contrast, when they said I’m going to Africa, they would literally say, “I’m going to Africa.”    And I just for myself, I’m like, Africa it’s the largest continent on Earth, there are so many different countries. There’s so many different peoples there, so many different, and even within those people’s, there’s so much fragmentation there, right? And not in a bad way, but in a beautiful way. And so I just got really enthroned with this idea of telling those stories telling that side of the African experience even though I’m sort of like lumping it all into one, what I’m trying to do is being very specific and intentional about telling each different countries story. And within that I also acknowledge and know that I’m not doing that because I’m just telling one person’s story, but it is really this collection of different stories that come together that I think make a beautiful and relatable narrative for people who are from Africa, but who are also not from Africa. Because there’s just so much richness in just all of those stories.    So that’s why I kind of named it 54 lights because it’s about 54 different countries. So at least 54 different perspectives, but it’s this idea of turning on the lights and illuminating and introducing people to other people from a cultural perspective.    I hope that answers your question.   Sundae: Yeah, I love this idea of turning on the lights. And my background, I have to share again, people get to watch the video version of this. Here’s the coffee cup that I had this morning. It says, “Have no fear the Norwegian is here.” There’s a lot like going on with that. I am originally from North Dakota and there’s the Scandinavian heritage, right? And the identity from Scandinavia, but there’s actually beyond Lefse, Lutefisk and Christmas, there isn’t other like tangible cultural practices, from Norway and people tend to lump things together. And when you don’t have knowledge, it’s dark, like you said, you need to turn the lights on, or you fill it in with the most available piece of information. And I’m kind of being playful here with a coffee cup because you can understand where I was born and raised, there was not a lot to draw from. And in fact, think about what there was to draw from, being born and raised in Williston, North Dakota, myths, stereotypes, exotic films, right?   And what I’m hearing you do is saying, if there is dark of not knowing and you want to turn lights on. Turn on lights with everyday lived experience with real people’s lives, with their successes, right? I think that’s an important one.    Kondwani: Yeah, 100%. And I think that you’ve caught another really important thread that I’m trying to have flow through the podcast, which is this idea of under-told stories. And it’s this idea that on the whole, your perception of a place or a country, or people’s can be painted through a rather generalist brush because of the one person who maybe has made it to fame or of these different peaks if you will. But culture is so rich. It’s so textured, it’s so layered and it’s my commitment to tell as many under-told stories. And I think that’s the – if you will – the tagline of it. Because it’s in those softer, softer stories that are a little bit under the surface where true culture lives and is born and thrives actually. That’s what gives texture to a people, a country, a place. So it’s really, you know, that that’s the important or another important angle that I propose and then that, I hope, flows through my platform. But also through this one, as well.    Sundae: And it also gives access, one way that a lot of the people in my community, we call “globally mobile” get to live in multiple places and get those stories through their relationships and their lived experience but not everybody gets to do that, and this is a way for you to bring that story and that experience to people’s to their home. So I’m curious from you, why now? Why is this conversation important now?    Kondwani: Yeah, wow, that’s a fantastic question. I think now more than ever, right? So, I, you know, just, you know, again, not to not to be so egoist but it’s self-reflective. I did start this journey a few years ago, and it was much more of a personal journey. Something that I just wanted to get out there was a ion project, right? That’s the common term. So, it was a ion project of mine and I love talking to people so I was sort of like, hey let me just marry my – it’s not a gift but maybe my curse of wanting to challenge people and this aspiration of mine.    I think what has happened over the past few years and I think now more than ever feels like a more important time for us to realize and introduce ourselves and respect and understand different cultures because we’re at a time where it’s a global society. And for good, or for bad the people across the street, across the pond, across the river, they’re important to our growth. They’re important to our fulfillment, whether it be, basic human needs all the way to aspirational needs or ones that are a little bit more about self-fulfillment.    So we are more connected than ever I suppose. So it feels like now is a great time to be having this broader discussion about how we as people can kind of connect and meet each other and talk to each other and understand each other.   Sundae: I had this interesting sort of AHA moment. Depending on what spiritual practice or religious practice, it might be easy to take in this idea of, “We’re all connected,” but for me, it’s like, “Yeah, we’re all connected. But no, we’re REALLY connected.” You know what I mean? And this example came here. It was like, you know, I get that kind of in theory, but when I was listening to the news and It was a helium shortage in two or three of the primary helium producing countries and it was creating a global shortage at birthday parties, right? But also in hospitals and with weather reporting systems. And it was that simple example of, “No, we really are interconnected.” And we see that because a birthday party is pretty universal. I know that not everybody celebrates birthdays with balloons, but it just felt like you could see it creep into every corner of the world. Hospitals need helium for certain equipment.    Kondwani: Yeah.    Sundae: And it and that was definitely connected.   Kondwani: It’s something we take for granted.    Sundae: Absolutely, it’s so invisible in our everyday lives, you know? And when I’m in my move, we are moving from South Africa to Switzerland and the containers are delayed, but they’re also impacted by a rainstorm that happened in South Africa because now the harbors are shut down. This is where this is all getting really messy and interconnected. And I think that’s good for us. When we grow up with these ideas of national boundaries and other boxes and we put people in, it’s so healthy for us as a species to go, “Oh, wait a minute. We are connected and this is meaningful.” When I do put a pebble in that pond it has a ripple effect to others. So I think that’s exciting.   Kondwani: 100%, at first when I think about what you’re saying sometimes you feel a little bit daunted, a bit scared, a bit like, “Oh my God.” There’s a quote unquote consequence to that, right? But at the other end of it and somebody told me – this is very fantastic doctor, she was telling me, “Your imagination doesn’t have to always go to the negative. Think of the positive.” Think of that positive ripple effect that you can make on other people’s lives through your voice, through your platform, through your video, through a simple act of kindness.    So it is one of those things, we are connected, but we have the power to really inspire a different outcome. We can inspire that ripple effect in a way that will be beyond us. But we might not even see it, the outcome of it but it might be change for good. And I know that sounds a little hokey but you know sometimes it’s nice, it’s good to be hokey. And sometimes it’s important to realize that that is the power that each individual has.    Sundae: I think we need a little hokey. I think we need that kind of hope, right? We do need to hold on to that because that’s the coaching side. That is as true or truer than this thought of, “Oh my gosh. We could have a negative impact.” It’s as true or truer that we can have a transformative, positive impact. And if we as individuals all focus on that: What can we do to have a positive transformative impact? That does literally have a ripple effect. And I think right now people just need to focus on that hope when things are hard. I also think we have access to so much with social media. And so much is negative, because that’s what sells news. It’s so important to have those positive stories out there to counterbalance the toxic energy that we’re getting on other fronts.    Kondwani: Yeah, 100%. And I think we do need that to keep balance.    Sundae: I’m curious about the impact of your podcast, obviously has an impact on your listeners, inspiring them and even probably the guests to be able to tell their story. I’m curious about the impact it’s had on you.    Kondwani: Wooh. Yeah. It’s been profound. It’s been profound. I can’t express to you how and actually, one of my guests actually put it in this way that, I’ll try and paraphrase, but he expressed to me, “Hey, this is really interesting. You’re somebody halfway across the world who I’ve never met before is reaching out to me and wants to do this interview and talk about all of the art that I’m doing and celebrate and elevate it. But I don’t know you. I listen to a couple of your podcasts. They seemed like they were on the right track,” so that’s why he reciprocated with a, “Yes, I’ll do the interview.” And the preamble of our conversation before the interview, he just kind of explained it to me and he unpacked that journey how he had faith in somebody else and it took him to have faith in somebody else to sort of say, “Hey!”    And in the end, we had a great conversation. We remain friends. So a lot of the people that I interview, we check in on each other. We just say, “Hello, how is it going? How’s the family? How’s work?” And stuff like that. And so I guess what it’s taught me about myself is:   I’m a little bit of an extrovert, even though I sort of kind of knew that, but I’m like, I’m an extrovert. I kind of say, “Hey, let’s go out there.” Just step into the pool, step into the arena, whatever the term you want to use. So it’s taught me that I’ve got a little bit more of that in me than I thought I did maybe five years ago.    And the other thing it’s taught me really is how much I really like people and how much I think people there’s a lot of good people out there with a lot of interesting, deep perspectives. And when you ask a question and when you just listen to me there’s something really uplifting about that. Something that I find to be really fulfilling but I love how that would translate to my audience. So I guess it’s a roundabout way. I’ve learned a lot about my ability to sort of leap into it but I’ve also learned how even though I’m not listening today, how much listening to other people is also in a way therapeutic for me.   Sundae: Yeah, when you listen to someone else’s story, you can find your shared humanity. Or you find a level of depth of humanity that you hadn’t yet considered.   So through my platform, very selfishly, it allows me to sort of tease back and open the onion and say, “Okay sure. I see the endpoint. I see the thing you’ve built, I see the thing you designed, I see the thing that you’re working on now, but tell me about the journey to get up there. Tell me about how you put that together.” And sometimes the journey is the thing, and that’s what I find to be immensely important.    Sundae: And I think when people peel back their journey, we also can have a little bit more grace for our own. Because when you’re in your journey and it’s hard or it’s not working or it’s not going as fast as you want it to, it feels really good to look at someone who’s successful and go, “Oh, they had experienced too,” right?    Kondwani: Yeah, 100%.   Sundae: That’s so good. So I’m really curious. I’m not going to put you on the spot but I’m going to put you on the spot. This isn’t rehearsed. So I’m going to ask you a couple of questions about your story. We’ve been talking about other people’s stories. I would love to hear a little bit more about your stories and just for context, something that I share often on the podcast is about Ambitious Transformation in Transition and we always start at the end. And that means, in transition, that could be a global transition, professional transition, health transition, relationship transition, all of those things could be happening at the same time. I’d love to hear what are the transitions that you’re feeling right now?    Kondwani: Wow, okay. Yeah, I’m feeling a lot of them, to be honest with you and on all of those different fronts. So on a professional front, I’ve got a kind of like a new day job which introduces me to a bunch of different artists, a bunch of different people who the Arts in Canada specifically but they reach out to a global world as well. And so I’m in transition there because I’m understanding a new, a new job, a new ecosystem. And I’m also learning how to sort of like, I guess to kind of like commit my whole self to work in a way that I typically put walls and say, “Well, this is my work personality and I don’t want to show this, and this is my personal,” and I am very intentional about dividing it. So I’m in transition to sort of try and bring my whole self to every part of what I do. So not just the podcast. But in this case, my professional world.   Sundae: Can I go a little bit deeper with that? I’m sorry, but you’re not gonna get away with this one. *laughter*   Kondwani: *laughter*    Sundae: So I know I resonate with that because here’s why I want to go deeper because I have been on that journey too, probably because of so much corporate experience in Switzerland. There was a personal and professional separation, there’s private life and then there’s professional life and that felt safe. And as I’ve had my own company and the work that I’ve done, whether I chose it or not, I don’t know, I decided or it started happening that I brought more of my personal, my whole self into my work. And for me, that felt vulnerable. I’m curious how it feels for you to bring your whole self into your professional context?   Kondwani: Yeah,  I’m gonna jump on a word that you just used which is that vulnerability, right? I have and I realized that part of the reason why I did that in my previous roles and in years past was to be safe. Was to just to not. Because I always felt like, if you open yourself up, if you expose too much of personality or if you expose too much about your personal life, your family life, there was just this element of vulnerability, you’re exposed. And I suppose, to be honest, a lot of fear in doing so. And maybe a lack of trust. I’m not too sure, I’m still teasing that knot out.    But it was definitely driven by fear, driven by a need to not be vulnerable and not so exposed because I thought that that could manifest in negative ways. And I think where I’m at now in my career and in my life, so this whole “showing up,” is what I’m trying to do as much as possible throughout my life is not to lead with fear and not to lead my life with fear, but to lead, maybe with hope to lead with light, to go back to my podcast to lead with light, then dark would connote. And if I lead with light and I lead with hope rather than fear, I think that I contribute better to my ecosystem. And when I say “my ecosystem,” I mean the one that I am in at the time. That I’m actually contributing and I’m helping uplift other people and that is helping other people bring their them show up as well. And if we both show up or if we all show up then the output will be better. Just everything will be better.    So what we’re doing, the projects we’re doing, the goals we’re setting, all of that and the impact we’re having on the world will be better. But if I go in and I lead with fear and I’m like, okay, I’m scared, somebody’s going to take this idea or somebody’s going to take this and use it against me or, you know, for whatever reason. Some of it logical and some of it is illogical, it’s not going to help in the outcome.   Sundae: Right? Totally, I think that makes me think about a moment I had where it was so simple, so silly in hindsight but it felt so big to me at the moment and it was totally coming from a fear place. I do this project through Wisdom Fusion and that’s actually how you and I are connected, we have a common friend through my Wisdom Fusion Project, and I had a photo of me that was sensual. It wasn’t corporate, it wasn’t sexual, but it was definitely feminine and it was a little bit different from what I normally share. But it was important for me to share a softer side. And my assistant, she was like, “Hey, let’s share this photo and talk about Wisdom Fusion,” and I was like *gasp* I just like froze. I’m like, “I don’t know if I could do that.” And it was like nothing was risque about this photo. Not at all. But it showed a feminine, maybe vulnerability. And I was like, “I can’t make this decision right now.” This is about a flipping social media photo. I can’t believe how much energy I put into it.    I went for a run. I called a friend. And I think what it was is I was protecting myself from other people saying, “Well, what is she doing?” Or, “That’s not professional.” or she, whatever it was like, this fantasy story had my mind. And then I realized If I don’t do this, I don’t break the boundaries that other women are holding up for themselves. I have to walk the talk, I have to do that. And it’s now in hindsight, it’s silly but that’s how real the fear can feel.    Kondwani: What a tremendous story, but it’s kind of like what you just said there is, the impact that that has on other people. That one post, as you say for you, it’s like, okay, it was one post, but it was a whole lot that went into it, in of you thinking about it. But the freedom that might give somebody else or the allowance that that might give somebody else or the perspective it might give somebody else, and it just might be one person, right? It might be somebody you’ll never meet, just somebody and they might not even quote like it on social media. They might not even react to it, but just seeing it might have a huge impact. So well I’m glad you made that choice, but it’s exactly that.   Sundae: So do you, can you think of any examples where you have had to battle through that fear and do something that felt courageous, even though maybe on the outside, it was something small?   Kondwani: Yeah, it is one of those, you know, there’s been like the COVID has been a very difficult time for me. And this is one of those moments where I’ve spoken really openly or this being what I’m about to say, really openly about my family went through quite a bit of devastation at the beginning of COVID. So I lost my sister unexpectedly due to ovarian cancer, all the women out there who are dealing with that, my heart goes out to you, and those who are not, please get yourself checked. It just had this traumatic impact. And my previous self would have never shared that and I don’t share it for pity or for any sort of like – I share it because it’s a part of my life and it’s a part of who I am now. And it sort of is also a part of who I’m like motivated by.    And I had the opportunity I guess to share this with a recent co-worker in a recent interaction and what ended up happening is we just had this conversation about, she was dealing with a tough time. We had just a really heartfelt, warm conversation about loss, about life, about what’s next about finding meaning in what you’re doing, and not sweating the small stuff. And it was really an important moment for me because it was sort of like, one of those moments where it’s sort of like, I allowed myself permission to talk about it and in doing so, it just opened up this conversation. And this connection that I ended up having with this colleague of mine, which wasn’t in the grand scheme of things didn’t change the world, it was just one of those things. It was a moment. I stepped through the moment. I felt vulnerable doing it as I feel vulnerable doing that now. But what happened afterwards and the connection that I have with her now is really, really strong. And it just allows us to be that much closer, that much connected. And, like I said, sometimes, it’s not a big thing like that. That was a relatively big thing in my life, obviously, the biggest thing actually in the past two years to be frank. But the previous me would have never shared that, ever.    Sundae: Well and thank you for sharing that. I think what I’m hearing in that is you were willing to be authentic, it was just what was true for you and you risked being authentic. And what I hear from that story is it created an intimacy or a connection that wouldn’t be there had you kept your cards close to your chest.   Kondwani: 100%   Sundae: And I think when we do that, right? When we do that, even professionally, in a professional scope, but still authentically, we give permission to other people to feel safe, to do that too.    Kondwani: Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. And it’s one of those things in a professional settings and in any setting, right? This is kind of an interesting one as well, is we can both win. Ultimately again in my previous world, it would be like, “Oh my gosh, Sundae’s got a podcast, I’ve got a podcast that’s a competitor.” Right? Instead of like, “No, there’s space and oxygen for us both and I want your podcast to succeed.” I’m actually recent though but a listener of it and I love the way you do Sundae.    So sometimes just putting down some of those walls. You never know what magic can happen.   Sundae: Right. Yeah, yeah, I love that you said, “Putting down the walls,” I feel like for me I had to put my guard down, I don’t know what I was protecting and then I guess through those moments every moment, big and small, you learn that you’re actually safe. And the irony is actually safer because you create connection and community with people on a much realer level. So what feels risky, could be safe. Interesting.    So thank you for sharing that; I think that’s so important. And for me, it’s important to ask those questions because when we share where we really are in transition and they see someone successful like you, we assume that you’ve got it like gold, it’s all easy, right? And it’s so important to hear what’s in the back room that people are also holding as they are moving forward in the world so I appreciate that. Can you tell us a little bit about– part of the work is around; Transformation, whether it’s internal or external or something that’s performance led. Are you feeling more driven by something internal, external, or performance based right now?    Kondwani: Yeah, I think right now, it’s the I’m being driven at this moment in my life where this bigger moment, not this second in my life to accomplish what I set out to do a few years ago with this, in relation to this podcast, which was really to march through the continent, to walk through it and take my listeners on this beautiful journey to meet all of these interesting stories, big or small from the great continent and just to turn up those lights, right? And so I did a couple seasons where I did the best I could and have had such amazing guests, which have given me the inspiration and the fortitude to say, “No, there’s something here. Let me push through that line.” So I’m really driven, it’s not really performance, but I kind of want to be driven by that desire to accomplish that goal and actually have that manifest and become real. So I think that’s part of the journey I’m on now and I’m just on this, you know, so it’s not really about performance necessarily. But rather about saying, “Hey. I can. I want to. It seems to have a good impact on people.” There’s nothing in this that – it’s hard work for sure but it’s rewarding work and I think I really want to just accomplish this in honor of the people that I’ve spoken to and that I continue to speak to and then and the audience is well, who’s told me like that they really enjoy it.   Sundae: And that’s while you are working while you’re a father, while you’re a partner, while you’re a friend, while you’re doing that and all those other things. That’s amazing. And that makes me think of the last part which is; Ambitious. I always say it has to be defined external to others’ ideas of scope and scale. We have to define our own ambitious. And for me ambitious is doing less – that’s my ambitious goal. This summer was to do less so I could be with my family more and in different ways. So, I’m curious, what is ambitious look like for you right now?    Kondwani: Yeah, I think for me, that’s funny. I love the way you talked about doing less, right? I’m also in a bit of a way, I’m trying to be my ambition is to be a little bit bolder with the podcast. With the podcast and then life as well, to be a little bit bolder. Like I said, to sort of leave my fear and apprehension is about like, “Oh, this won’t be good. Oh, this…” The self-doubt in the self, all of that stuff. And not to say that I don’t have that and that I ignore spidey senses of things that maybe aren’t going wrong and not listen to my intuition. But it’s more about; Be bold. Trust in yourself. Trust in and have faith in the people that are around you. And so that to me is part of that ambition.    And what I’m trying to do now, as well is to, as I mentioned before, it’s to another ambitious thing that I’m trying to do, if you will, for myself is to tear down walls like internally. So my son and my daughter are actually really amazing little humans. And I want to be the best father as possible but one of the things that’s really kind of interesting is they ask me like, “What are you working on? What is this?” And they have creative bones in their little bodies. So I kind of said, “Listen, if you guys want to, let’s make an afternoon out of this.” 2-3 hours is an afternoon for kids of this age and let’s design.  Something together that will fall into the podcast. Let’s let’s like you do you, do you have a nav you know, a post and I do a post and then we’ll put them together. And I promised them, I said, I promise I will use one of each one of your creations, but we have to work through it and it’ll be like a fun project for us to do together. I know people will be like, “We have child labor laws,” but it really was a fun project. To answer your question, part of my ambition is to show up and to make sure that I’m not excluding people that I care about a long journey, which I find to be super important.   As I want to say, “Hey, this is important to me. It’s important to my fulfillment and this is part of how I show up. So in your way, can you and I do something together with this. And it doesn’t have to be big and doesn’t have to be bold. It doesn’t have to be more than 15 minutes. But are you okay that this becomes part of our shared space?”    and you know, that’s a bit ambitious, a little bit like with kids or with family, it’s kind of like, well that’s your thing but it’s like, no, like if you love me and I love you and this is what it may be. Can be partially our family, you know. So there’s a, it’s a tricky and I hope I’m making sense in that in my reply, but that’s part of my ambition is to do be more effective about and making the right choices, right?    So there’s a lot of things that I’m doing. But can I, you know, can I make the right choices about what I’m doing when I’m not doing and then the things that I choose to do? How do I optimize as my marketing hat coming on, but how do I optimize that in a way that weaves in my family where it’s possible or weaves in my friends, where it’s possible? right? Or weaves in my beautiful? You know, like are there sinner beautiful,    Sundae: Right. And I hear that like, in of the collective like how can I integrate more of the collective rather than just the individual and that sounds like it’s weaving it even more deeply into your life.   Kondwani: Yeah. Yeah, 100%.   Sundae: Yeah, it’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful. So before we round up here, I want to know, I will put your stuff in the show notes so everybody knows how to get a hold of you, definitely your podcast. What is next for you? What are you working on that our listeners should know about?    Kondwani: Yeah, well, kind of like I said, this next season which is going to be coming up probably in the next couple of weeks now. So I’m going to try and debut it in in early. July late June, early July and really just go on this slow and steady burn of this march through the continent so that’s like that’s been my focus. It’s been my energy. It’s been my source of inspiration. And I’m actually really just enthralled with that in of what’s next and just getting to know my guests a bit better and have connections with them. And then possibly maybe, possibly down the road look at the concept for 54 Lights, but look at that as a concept for other parts of the world. Because ultimately what I’m trying to do here is to talk about texture and as much as this is an African story, it’s kind of not an African story. It’s a human story, right? It’s about the Norwegian, the Norwegian decoding, you know what I mean? To me like it’s about that.   So I’m toying with the idea of like, “Hey, maybe there’s another iteration of this,” and putting it out in the universe. I wouldn’t have done that five years ago, I’d be like, “Oh, don’t do that buddy.” But now I’m okay to do that or I’m comfortable doing that. And I invite anybody who’s interested in talking about it, working on that with me, or just simply following and listening,  invite them all to just do whatever they want to do there. But I welcome co-collaborators, co-conspires as well.   Sundae: That’s beautiful. Thank you. I can’t wait to see what’s next. So I’m going to just share quickly what I think I’m taking away from this. I knew in advance,   I wanted to focus on untold stories because that’s what you do in your podcast. But then something shifted in me when we started talking about our untold stories, right? I started this with kind of a bigger picture concept about others, but then once we started sharing our untold stories, it shifted something in me.    And it reinforces this idea of how important it is when you feel safe and are willing to stretch, to say the untold. To those who will hold it. To those who will honor it. And that I think is really beautiful. So I hope our listeners today can find a moment where someone they know is worthy of holding that untold in a safe way and giving each other space to stretch. I think it’s really beautiful. So thank you for what you’re doing and the big picture level of that and thank you for showing up so fully today. It’s really beautiful. So-   Kondwani: Thank you, Sundae and I see your show fits really well with in transit, right? Because that’s what it’s about. It’s what it’s about.   Sundae: We started in one place at the beginning of the podcast and now we’re somewhere else. So thank you for being here. And thank you to everybody who has been listening. This is IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I appreciate you being here. I started this episode with Maya Angelou and so it is fitting that I also finished with her. She says: “There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 291: The “African” Experience with Kondwani Mwase appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

“Out of the mouths of babes.” A familiar saying that’s used by adults to express surprise when a child articulates something wise and sensible. Kids have a remarkable intuition that sometimes gets dulled as they age by society and grownups who encourage them to push it down.   “Always be nice and polite.” “Don’t say that or talk back.” “Listen to your history teacher/gymnastics coach/Boy Scout leader.” “It’s rude to ask so many questions.”   Yet more and more child experts indicate that difficult topics should never be off-limits. Of course, there’s a need to adjust the delivery to make a subject age-appropriate. Sample questions for a little one could look like asking: “What does this mural mean to you? How does this image make you feel?”   Welcome to our Untold Stories Bean Pod. This week, it’s my pleasure to welcome Dr. Crystal Menzies to discuss how we can use education to foster a greater sense of togetherness. A former teacher in urban schools, Crystal drew on her personal experience, and her Guyanese and African American roots to create EmancipatED.   There, Crystal’s mission is to cultivate communities of radical dreamers, thinkers, and doers through educational resources, collaborative learning experiences, and storytelling.   An enthusiastic historian, Crystal recounts events of free rebel Black communities throughout her work. And today, it’s my honor to have Crystal us to share a few gripping stories with a side of expert advice on how we can pave a better path forward. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Fictive Kinship Maroon Communities Expanding how you see yourself, your community, your power When children & parents are on an equivalent learning plane Black Liberatory Pedagogy Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Think you can’t make meaningful connections virtually? Think again. Our FREE online community, the IN TRANSIT Hub, has sparked ive friendships for over four years and counting. You’ll wish you ed us earlier, so sign up right here! Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Emancipated – WebsitedIn emancipate_ed – Instagram Dr. Crystal Menzies – LinkedIn     We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 11:00 pm in New York, 5:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 10:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   I’ve been saying this for about a year now, that we need old solutions to new problems. Yes, you heard that right, our existing strategies are not working and we need to do things differently and often times the answer is not in inventing something new but returning to something old, something tested, something that is deeply embedded in cultural wisdom.    And our guest today is doing such innovative work where she takes on a massive topic: How to navigate as liberated beings within oppressive systems. Our guest today is Dr. Crystal Menzies. And she is a former educator in urban schools, who drew on her personal experience, African diaspora and history, and her Guyanese and African-American roots to fund an organization called; emancipatED. Today, she develops research-based educational experiences that center Black communities. I’ve seen her flagship product, it is amazing, and she draws on the stories of Maroon communities. Maybe you’ve never heard of them, Africans who freed themselves from slavery and created hidden societies to offer Black and Brown families a model for how to navigate as liberated beings within oppressive systems.    What I’ve learned about Dr. Menzies is she is an educator and academic at heart but also has a spirit of openness and playfulness. She lives in the Bay Area in California, enjoys reading, Marvel movies, and daydreaming of Black futures. It is my heartfelt pleasure to welcome you to IN TRANSIT Dr. Menzies.   Crystal: Thank you. I’m honored to be here and excited for this conversation.   Sundae: Yeah. Me too. Thank you. So let’s dive right In. You have this background in education, you were doing it for years and urban schools, and I’m guessing that you loved it. But something happened when you decide to make a big move of your own, and your life and your work also went in transit. From what I’ve learned about your background, you branched out and went to find solutions to systemic racism elsewhere. Can you tell us a little bit more about that journey? And what inspired you to make the move?   Crystal: Yeah, so, when I was a teacher, I was what was considered a, “culturally responsive teacher,” but I didn’t know the term. I just knew I cared about my kids, and I had high expectations for them and two things happened.    I teaching about enslavement in like the Black stories that we often learn centered in the United States. And one of my students said, “Why do we talk about Black folks all the time?” And this was a Black student and I’m like, “What do you mean?” But after doing some digging, I realized he was tired of hearing about the traumatic narratives. He knew nothing else about Black history. And I realized that’s all I’m teaching them and that’s all they’re getting exposed to outside of here. So I taught a lesson on rebellions of enslaved peoples in the United States and outside of the United States, and my kids loved it.    And I was also observed that day. So I got written up because it was not a high-priority standard, meaning it was unlikely to show up on a standardized test. So I was teaching, one, to illuminate the full stories of Black history but also I noticed my students were carrying the weight of that trauma and I didn’t want that to be what they took away from that experience. So that was one thing.    And then another, I lost one student in particular who like gave me a lot of challenges at the beginning of the year. But by the middle of the first semester, she was like my main go-to in the classroom for getting her peers on track. And she was murdered in a drive-by shooting two weeks after their eighth-grade graduation.    So those two stories, there’s more but like that is what propelled me out of the classroom. Because initially, I thought, “Nobody studying these, larger, systemic factors that impact students lives. I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing,” right?    Sundae: Yeah. Right.    Crystal: And went to a doctoral program. And then through there, I was kind of like a ship without a rudder, like, “Where do I go now?” And not just, where do I go physically but like, “What am I doing?”    Because there has to be another way and it was through those experiences that I’ve always been obsessed with Maroon communities but I kept them separate.    Sundae: Hmm.    Crystal: And it was through kind of my own self-exploration I need something I can grasp, so let me tap back into what has already happened and existed, and that’s what brought me to studying Maroon communities and how they could provide a framework for our liberation.    Sundae: Wow. So for those who are not familiar with Maroon communities, can you give just a brief introduction to who they are?   Crystal: Yes, so Maroon communities, I’m going to use the present tense because some still exist are communities of self-emancipated Africans, so folks who ran away from enslavement and created free hidden societies throughout the Americas. So any place enslavement existed there were Maroon communities often nearby of various sizes. Some still exist today, Jamaica has several, Columbia, Suriname, and they created their own cultures because they were a melting pot of different African societies and cultures, and some folks who had been born in what we consider the America’s today and so they have their own free communities.   Sundae: Fascinating. And so what was it that made you say – I’m curious about the day and I’m expecting it was like an epiphany or something. Where you’re like, “Oh wait a minute. These are these stories. These are those powerful cultural communities that exist. What if we brought that story and those strategies into new contexts.”   Crystal: It was, you know, it was a day, it was always percolating in the back of my mind and I started to seek out knowledge and there’s these frameworks called Black Liberatory Pedagogy, and again being an educator, I love frameworks, and I realized a lot of the ways we talk about, liberation can make it feel unattainable. And I was like, “How can I merge?” Because I did a DEI work in organizations and I focus on practical like pragmatic, “This is what we can actually change today to lead to this bigger thing.” But I was like; How can we do that for these bigger systems and in our day-to-day lives?    And as I was like, researching Black Liberatory Pedagogy like, wait, is there is a way I can merge Maroon communities as a framework and a as a series of active steps with Black Liberatory Pedagogy, and so I created this framework. And this was right. This was a year before everything shut down. So created this framework, shared it with a friend, she was like I love it but nobody knows who Maroon communities are. And I was like, “You’re right,” I’m creating this whole fancy thing and folks don’t even know why?    But then I tabled it for a little bit. I was in a crazy job, then ended up in the hospital and was still kind of that was like sitting off to the side again, felt like rudderless again like, “What, what do I do? Who am I?” And when everything shut down, I moved from Dallas to the Bay Area, I realized a lot of things because I moved closer to family, but the gist is how separated we had been becoming prior to the pandemic.    Sundae: Yes, yes.   Crystal: I used to grow up in a large neighborhood. We’re all playing around together. Lots of play cousins, who I thought were my real family until I learned in middle school, “Oh, we’re not actually blood-related?” We were losing that even prior to the pandemic, but the pandemic exacerbated that and made us little tiny family units. I saw what my friends with children were going through trying to work remotely and educate young children remotely. And we have the uprisings with George Floyd and it was very much, how can I embody these practices? And I can’t embody these practices by myself. It needs to be done within a community. And that’s where the product came from is bringing us back together. Getting back to, like you said, the old solutions to new problems. The solutions are founded in community. So how can we build intentional community? And that’s what undergirds this exploration guide I’ve created.   Sundae: I just have chills because there’s so much to unpack there, right? I being in corporate back in 2000, I think 8, something around there and we were talking about Mega Trends and one of the Mega Trends is individualization. And that is the opposite of collectivism or of community. And I’m thinking about in the US specifically, it’s already an individualistic culture, and then it’s going even more individualized. And even in the research I’ve seen, also in collectivistic countries, there is that move to individualization which is then tearing at the fabric of intergenerational communities or communities of just by geography, right? Like, the neighborhood. If there’s that kid riding their bike too fast, one of the other people down the street will say slow down. Because you watch over each other.    And that all of that is going away. The other thing that I’m thinking about is I always talk about resilience and we say, resilience is not who can take on the most on their shoulders. It’s who can be in community in the way that is the smartest so they can take care of themselves and still take care of others. We have so many twisted ideas because of that we’ve gotten so far away. So now you have this organization called emancipatED with a capital E D and you talk about you, the aim is to transformation of how we see ourselves as people, I’m guessing the Black and Brown communities is where the we is coming from, and the way that you engage with each other as kin. So tell me more about emancipatED and why that’s important to you?   Crystal: Well, something I mentioned when I was teaching about the consistent trauma narratives around the Black experience. And this doesn’t mean we ignore that history. I mean, it is a part of how we’ve been shaped and I’m speaking, we specifically, as a Black American and Guyanese American. But there’s more to that story and how can we use these stories:   To bring us back together as larger communities. But also to provide a guide for how do we liberate ourselves within these systems.   And it sounds like very lofty goals. But the core of what this curriculum does is get us back to communal storytelling and learning our family history, learning our local history of resistance and community building and rebellion. So each part, there’s eight activities and each activity has like a self-reflection component, then there’s a family connection component, but then there’s also a component of like, get out there in your neighborhood and meet people and do things. And also to invite people into your space when you’re doing these activities. Folks you haven’t talked to in a while. And it’s adapted for different age levels. So you have children, correct.   Sundae: Yeah. 10 and 14.   Crystal: 10 and 14. So this is perfect for them as far as being able to understand the words in the curriculum but we do have adaptations for folks who have younger kids. So instead of asking, “what does this mural mean to you?” You might ask, again for a child, “how does this feel? How do you feel when you look at this image. Or what colors do you see?” To kind of get them to reflect and talk about what they’re experiencing?    Sundae: Hmm. It’s beautiful. So I’m curious, it sounds like it’s really expanding the lens at how you see yourself, how you see community, how you find your power. And how you find connection with your family with your community, that’s POWERFUL. But through a quite, I want to say simple, but simple isn’t easy. Simple, in of like, digesting. Can you tell me, I want to know about impact, how is this impacted you? How has this impacted the people that have gone through this process?   Crystal: Personally, I saw someone say, I wish I could cite them but because I don’t know who the originator was that, “Entrepreneurship is a spiritual journey,” and that has very much been my experience like of pushing through fear. I didn’t realize in many ways, I consider myself pretty unconventional and fearless, but when it came to this, all these things started bubbling to the surface. And so the transformation for me has been one of helping me, like reigniting hope,  to see that these communities, not only existed, but still exist.    And they fought wars against colonial plantation society and have systems where gender dynamics are different and women are nurtured and cared for in a way that we don’t often see in our society. It just was a reminder that the way things are aren’t the way things have to be. And I need that.    So when I was eight I learned that word what pessimism was because my dad told me I was a pessimist. And I was like, “What does that mean?”, he gave me the half glass, half glass half-full half-empty analogy and I was like, “Huh, interesting? He’s right.” So someone like me, how can I keep reigniting that hope? And that for me, it is through community and through when I hear these stories of not just Maroons but my own family history, I feel empowered and like want to keep pushing forward.    Sundae: Right? I think it is important. When I think about family history, my family origin is around there like the classical pioneers. Left Norway, went on the boat, got in the covered. wagons went across the land. And if I think about some of my work that I’ve had to do on perfectionism and just so committed to my work, I’m like, of course, because the women who came before me basically lived in the tundra and were trying to survive.  So there’s this hardness that got translated through that I inherited. And it helped me be more gentle to myself to realize, “Oh that’s why that is there,“ right?    And be able to be grateful for that but also say it’s safe now you can drop – you can relax a little, there’s no more tundra, you don’t have to survive in the winters. You can be more gentle and loving when you have more context for things. So do you have stories from people who have gone through your process and what impact it had on them?   Crystal: Yes, I do and I’ve it’s exceeded my expectations. Like I said, there’s a lot of fear in this. It felt divinely inspired and I was energized as I created and then once it’s out there, I’m like, “Oh my God, everybody’s gonna hate it.” But it is the opposite experience.    One person messaged me and said they wish, because I called the curriculum an exploration guide. So it comes with all these different activities and then there’s the hidden history cards that are the stories of The Maroons. And someone replied back to me, “I wish we had these type of guides for our whole lives.” On like how to navigate life in general because it was so impactful for their family and how enthusiastic their kids were. Because I didn’t position this as a parent teaching a child, something. It’s, we’re learning together. And so children are on an equal plane as their parents. And just depending on the age, the parent is more of a facilitator of, breaking stuff out.    And so seeing their kids in a different light because there’s a lot of like value-centered activities of reflections and how do you see yourself? How do you see yourself within this family? So, I’m getting a lot of about parents learning a lot about their kids, and in many ways, raising their expectations for their kids. Assuming because they’re at a certain age that the depth of feeling and reflection isn’t there and that’s being revealed through these activities.    Sundae: Wow. What a gift.   Crystal: So that’s been wonderful for me.    Sundae: What a gift, right? It’s not cognitive, not just cognitive, and knowing it’s about the connection what’s being created. And I’m guessing, it’s also embodied for the children who are like, “Hey, this is cool. This is our family history. This is what I’m proud of this is what has worked in the past,” like being able to hold that in their body. And that’s I see that now, when you tell the first story of that wise student in your class who said, “Hey this is heavy, you’re going to make me carry all of this? Isn’t there something to balance this?” That is as true. And as important to know. That’s beautiful. Feels like it’s come full circle for you.   Crystal: It has a very much as and it’s in many ways. I was creating what I hope to experience, and what I do experience in my communities. And I don’t have children. So I don’t use parents in the text, I use the term caregiver because we don’t we getting back to the communalness, it’s not just going to be parents or people who birth children who are raising kids. And it shouldn’t just be, my mom friends go through a lot.    Sundae: Yeah. That’s right. So tell me more about this idea of Fictive Kinship, I know that something that is an important concept, will you share more about that and how that is connected to this bigger conversation about community and families.   Crystal: Yeah. So Fictive Kinship, my learning of the term comes from like African research, Africology. We identify kin as blood relations, Fictive Kinship is people who are like family but aren’t our blood. So Fictive Kinship networks, the way I operationalize it, is people who are our blood and also those folks who are family by choice or family by locality. Those networks. And so in the guides, I prompt folks to bring those folks into the space and do these activities together. Because ultimately, when we look at Maroon societies, there also organized into fictive kinship clans and depending on the different Maroon cultures, they’re organized in different ways.    So in Palenque, for example, they have these things called Quad Radha’s, I hope I’m pronouncing that correctly, it’s like age-based, little clans of people who aren’t related but they’re the same age group and have the same interests. So there’s people who are musicians. There’s people as they get older, who handle the funeral rites of the community. They don’t have police. They do have a group of people who moderate conflict and that’s their role. Their fictive kinship clan’s role within the community. So using that foundation to – and we do this, right? We just don’t think about it intentionally and just being more intentional about these communities that were cultivating and curating.    Sundae: Well, and that word intention is kind of a theme that I’m seeing throughout all of what you do, is how do we intentionally expand the conversation? “How do we intentionally connect with our family?” Intentionally explore our culture. There’s so much intentionality in what you do, and it just feels so urgent right now when we’re literally on autopilot scrolling through social media, the mindlessness, the mindlessness. It’s so interesting. I don’t know, there’s something inside me I want to share and I’m not sure how it will come out. I was just reading a newsletter from someone I respect and their work I respect. And they talked about the practice of mindfulness and meditation. And I think this is another way of being mindful. It’s not this quiet silence. It’s another way of being mindful. It’s an embodied way, it’s a connected way. And that’s what it seems like the bigger picture your work is doing.    Crystal: I’m writing this down, “Yes.”    Sundae: I mean that’s what it looks like you’re doing from the outside. I love that. This topic is wide and it’s deep. And I also want to save time to talk about you and your life. Is there something important that you think your listeners need to understand about your work? Either as an educator as a parent or as an Individual that we haven’t yet touched on?    Crystal: Yes, I would say the core. You hit the nail on the head when I was like, that’s why I’m writing, “Let me write this down. Okay.” This embodied mindfulness and the core of who I am as a human is integrity. And what I’ve attempted to do with this product and with my businesses is operate with integrity. Integrity first. People first. And that has it’s – in this world – it has its pluses and minuses. For those who watch Game of Thrones and I hate how it ended but I’m like Ned Stark. I’m going to operate with candor and care this product was created with candor and care and community, and that’s the core of what I want folks to take away from this experience. What I hope folks can build with their communities. And the bigger picture, this is just one thing, my big picture is I would love to see local communities do these activities together and how do we create physical sites of joy and resistance where we are.    Sundae: Yes. Yes.   Crystal: That’s the big picture.    Sundae: That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. Well, I’ll make sure that when the listeners are catching up with this, they’ll be able to have links to find out where they can learn more. I’ll make sure we put that in the show notes because I think that’s the next step, right? Now that this is out there, how do they take it into their lives, into their communities and have it be not abstract. But as we were saying embodied, so do you mind if we turn a little attention to you right now? I think there’s so much you’ve already been through. I’m imagining, this is a full cycle of transformation for you, and there’s, as you said, entrepreneurship is a great way to begin another layer of transformation. I’d love to hear more from you, ATT: Ambitious, Transformation in Transition. I always talk about transition first. What is the soup you’re swimming in? A global transition. Family transition. What is your soup of transition right now that you’re feeling?    Crystal: There’s quite a bit, I like everything. My grandmother is 95, my paternal grandmother, and she’s in the process of transitioning, and I use that  word, when I brought it up to someone else, they were like, “Wait, she’s transitioning at 95?” I’m like, “No, no, no. This is not a gender affirming transition.” She’s ing away and I went to visit her and spend some time with her. And its really helping, “help” is the wrong word. I’m really reframing what my relationship to family and my relationship to mortality. When you operate like life is short and long at the same time. So what are you going to do with it? I’ve heard those things all my life, but I’m feeling it for the first time of; What am I going to do with this life I’ve been given? And who do I want to be in relation to other people? Because I traveled a lot. I’ve lived – I left California for a decade and I’m not the best at keeping in with people.    Sundae: Hmm.    Crystal: And I can’t keep in with it 1500 folks you befriend over time but how can I be intentional with sustaining deep relationships is definitely a transit I’m experiencing right now.    And then also, with this entrepreneurship journey, expanding what I think is possible. I think just learning about going through this process of studying Maroons. And the entrepreneur piece underneath it. It’s like, I really can create the life that I want in community, and then what do I want? I am a Critical Race Theorist, as an educator, it was easy for me to identify what I don’t want to exist.  I’m now in a space where I’m identifying, Well then, if I don’t want this what is it that I do want? What’s it look like? And then who do I need to be for that to actually happen. So it’s lots of this talk came right at the right time because I’m been thinking a lot about these things.    Sundae: Yeah and it’s so – this is where it’s hard to tease that way. I talk about Transformation, its internal lead, external lead or performance led, or maybe all three at the same time, right? An external lead would be like, “Oh, the pandemic happened and I lost my job.” And internal would be, “I woke up one day and I felt vastly different.” or performance led, you have this ambitious goal and sometimes it is murky to decide what is this from, the outside or is this coming from the inside. When you were talking I actually had my– I had tears well up in my eyes because I feel like we’re at such a pivot point right now of, at least where I stand with my views, we’re getting a lot clearer and what we don’t want, even though it’s a long time, on many layers of identity and power in history. And then the question is, like you said, what’s on the other side? And what is it going to ask of me so that I can create that? Because there’s also security in known systems. And there’s insecurity when you don’t know what you’re going toward.    And maybe it’s different for me because I hold so many dominant identities. I’m actually letting go of power and you know what I mean? So there’s that and thing. And so it’s this question of, what are we going toward? And I have this image of my hands where I’m not doing it on my own. I’m holding hands because I’m not doing it alone. And that is what I think is so beautiful about where we’re at right now because collectively we have– not a choice. We have enough momentum now to make those leaps and I think they are a million individual leaps. It’s you with your business and those conversations, right? It’s me with my business in my conversation. It’s that person with their son. And that conversation. It’s all of those millions of small steps is what I think we’ll take that leap.    I actually kind of hope it’s that way. And not like this massive explosion of who knows what which will force it. I hope we have the opportunity to exercise agency and take our steps to make that movement rather than it being some catastrophic shift that makes it undeniable, you know what I mean? So that’s just what I’m processing while I heard you. There’s so much hope in there. There is so much hope.    So what does Ambitious look like for you right now? If you know, the way I define it, it has to be outside of scope or all from the external. So for me, ambitious, this summer was doing less. That’s ambitious for me. for someone else, it might be being bolder. Another, it might be quieter, right? So what about for you? What does ambitious look like for you right now?    Crystal: I listen to the podcast about what is ambition, so I was like jotting notes and then additionally, I wrote down, my goal is to write a weekly newsletter, just be consistent in building a relationship with my audience. But I was like, you know what, that’s actually not it. What is it for me is saying, what’s on my mind? In a way that adds value to the conversation. That’s ambitious to me because way before business, I had a brand and I didn’t like that term but that’s what my one of my sorority sisters used to say. She was like, “Crystal, you have a brand, people listen to what you say and they value what you say.” And over time, I’ve receded into myself, this is on social media, just seeing some of the negativity, people feeling entitled to my opinion. And is always a man in my DM’s, “What’s your opinion and thoughts on this?” You know? click.   Sundae: *laughter* You’re like, here’s my PayPal . I will meet you on the phone for a consult.   Crystal: Exactly. And I’ve answered their question. And then they debate me. And I’m like, I told you my opinion. And so it’s seeing how other people were treated, who were like very public, I’m like, you know what, I don’t think I want this, right? But as I’m communicating these stories and what I’m doing, I can’t live in that fear of the worst case scenario. So, for me, ambitious is that putting myself out there consistently and doing it in a way – I don’t want to piggyback off of what’s hot at the time. That’s not empowering to me. That doesn’t give me energy. But I do know, I can often add nuance that isn’t there. And I will withhold that nuance. And so with ambitious to me is like putting that out there    Sundae: Yeah, that’s beautiful. I see your integrity shine through in that example. For sure. That’s beautiful. I know we could go on forever, but can you help the audience understand what is next for you if they want to learn more about you and what you’re working on? What should they know?    Crystal: Okay, so you can follow along with the business in the product at emancipatededucation.com. That’s where you can purchase, also, learn more about our mission. And I do have a blog. If you click Newsletter, that talks about what’s gone into the development of this product, sharing more of those thoughts that I’ve been afraid to share. There’s also Instagram page emancipate_ed. And as far as what’s next for me, is really thinking about, I know what kind of business owner I want to be. I know what kind of business I want to run, and like you said, who do I need to be? Well, I’m already with that person. So it’s what do I need to do to actually run a business that way? Because it’s very easy to just plug into the systems that already exist. But what I don’t want to do is to create something that continues to harm the environment.  So I’m looking at researching sustainable business practices like environmentally sustainable and then what does that look like in product creation?   Sundae: Wonderful.    Crystal: That’s next for me and then finding community of people who are already doing it.    Sundae: Yeah, it’s gorgeous. I’m also hearing the people that you’re speaking to our educators, families and individuals who are interested in sort of going to that transformation process around how they see themselves and the way they engage with each other as kin. You said. It’s beautiful. It’s beautiful.    Oh, I love, I love to see what you’re doing. I mean, there’s so much I’m taking away from our conversation today and it feels like just the beginning. Some of the things that were bubbling up for me, it feels like they’re not quite fully articulated yet. There’s something much deeper and bigger about what you’re doing that I think is going to have a beautiful ripple effect. So thank you for showing up even though you’re afraid. We know how the I know that as an entrepreneur, I’m celebrating my 9th business year, and I know that journey is hard.   Crystal: Oh, congratulations.    Sundae: It is hard and I just hold for you, I hold for you, I talked about this on my podcast, the endgame, whatever endgame you have for you as that business owner with integrity and impact, and all of that, I hold that for you because it will be possible for you. In three years, four years, five years, whatever that time frame is, but I can feel it. It’s worth the ups and down roller coaster. Wonderful. Thank you. And thank you to everyone who’s been listening today. You’re here on IN TRANSIT was Sundae Bean. It’s so wonderful to have Crystal here with us today. So thank you, Crystal, for being part of this.    Crystal: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.  Sundae: It’s wonderful. And I think it’s only appropriate that we end with the words of Audre Lorde: “Without community. There is no liberation.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 290: A Liberated Education with Dr. Crystal Menzies appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Many cultures revere their elders, with practices designed to demonstrate appreciation for those who are even slightly older. These rituals of respect become paramount to maintaining harmony between the generations. So then why is ageism still the most socially-condoned prejudice? A report from the World Health Organization indicates that one in two people have moderate to high ageist attitudes. How is it that, in a world clawing for progress, we give ageism a ? For the final part of our very first Bean Pod, it’s my pleasure to welcome Natasha Ginnivan to disrupt our attitude towards aging. A blog writer at Mobilising Wisdom, Natasha reinvented herself midlife, obtaining her Ph.D. to embark on a ion-filled career as a researcher of psychology and aging.   Natasha’s intergenerational work focuses on how we can transform our life experiences, both good and bad, into sharable lessons. Today, Natasha dissects study-based advice that’s shown to increase our lifespan. She also provides creative ways we can realize our full potential as we age. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Sex & aging A simple secret to living seven years longer Invisible hand guiding you along your aging journey Awareness of how aging is framed all around you Collectivist cultures & elder abuse Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Get ready, because here comes ANOTHER BIG TRANSFORMATION! As usual, those in our free, online community — the IN TRANSIT Hub — will be first to know. You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. us today! Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Mobilising Wisdom Natasha Ginnivan – LinkedIn Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Ashton Applewhite Face: One Square Foot of Skin by Justine Bateman     Catch These Podcasts / Articles: World Health Organization: Ageism is a global challenge: UN The Media Portrayal of Older People, The Good, The Bad and The Absent   We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 2:00 am in New York, 8:00 am in Johannesburg, and 1:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   What if I told you I have something that can help you live seven years longer. The best part is it’s free. According to the research in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Becca R. Levy, PhD of Yale University and her colleagues found that adults who developed positive attitudes about aging, lived more than seven years longer than peers who had negative attitudes. My question is; Why are we not talking about this more? We’re talking about vitamins, we’re talking about exercise regime, but just our attitude about aging can impact the longevity of our life. And that is why I’m so excited to have Natasha Ginnivan here. She is a researcher of psychology and aging, a blog writer at Mobilising Wisdom. And thanks for her bicultural and third culture kid (TCK) upbringing, she’s interested in cultural attitudes to aging, exploring age stereotypes and self perceptions of aging. Natasha, welcome to IN TRANSIT today.    Natasha: Thank you. Sundae, it’s is great to be here.    Sundae: I’m going to say a little bit more about your background so people have some details about you. Your work is centered around the ways that we can disrupt age stereotypes through intergenerational learning, and that’s something that I love, what you are doing is an absolute ion of mine as well, through mutual mentoring, reframing, aging and wisdom sharing. She’s an advocate for the importance of inner work and self-reflection, and is interested in how we can take our life experiences, both good and bad and transform these into lessons worth sharing. These include activities of self-inquiry, mindfulness and meditation, art exploration and creative ways to realize our full potential as we age.    So for people who know my work, they can completely understand why I’m excited to have you here today.    So, you certainly mean business when it comes to understanding our attitudes to aging and how it impacts our lives. I am so curious, how did you even come into this area of study?    Natasha: Yes. So interestingly, I went through transition in my 30s and felt like I needed something a little more. I used to be a designer in fashion and product development in my 20s. After I have my first child, I was interested in researching psychology. I’d always been quite interested in that field and I returned to studies at the University of New South Wales and took up psychology and my very first project was on implicit attitudes to aging. And we looked at the implicit association test as a class and we all sort of took it as an experiment and then we observed the score together as a class, and recognized that we all tend to have these implicit biases around aging.    And I was curious to know whether a cultural background had a difference, and I come from two different cultures, my dad’s Australia, my mum grew up in the Philippines. So I have a sort of Eurasian heritage and on my mother’s side of the family, it’s very kind of intergenerational. And so I went home and I took the implicit association test separately, and observe my own individual score and I recognize that it’s sort of deviated from the main and I didn’t seem to have as strong a preference for younger as the group class the group sort of average score. So that immediately I became fascinated with why culturally we do as collectively have a preference for young, and we tend to because of that, diminish ourselves as we age. And older people and “old” is something that’s not really considered attractive in Western culture, and I think things might be shifting little bit here and there, but overall, we still have some quite pervasively kind of attitudes, I think.   Sundae: I find this so fascinating. So you’ve mentioned, Western culture and maybe you can’t do this without over generalizing. But I’m curious what you know about how do cultural attitudes to aging differ. Because when I as an interculturalist, when I think about let’s say a preference for hierarchy, we have cultures that give power to hierarchy and others that focus on equality. So age is also on the hierarchy and I noticed living in West Africa that you show respect to your elders and it is it’s very much high on the hierarchy. So I’m curious, I have so many dirty intercultural questions right now at the intersection between aging attitudes and hierarchy orientation, and all of that. But just generally, what can you say about what you’ve noticed about cultural differences to aging?    Natasha: So, the focus of my main research that I undertook in postgraduate studies later when I did my PhD and I really explored predominantly Anglo but from the Australian perspective attitudes to aging. And then went over to the Philippines and did some field work there in collaboration with the University of Philippines. And I also did focus groups with younger and older people in both those cultures. And what I found was that younger people in the Philippines, from the moment they sort of can speak they’re given to preface that before they speak about the either cousin or brother or anyone who’s older not just sort of aunties, our uncles but even older brothers and sisters who are older. Just to keep in mind that that they’re a bit older than you and that there is this sort of like respect kind of thing.    It’s not really just about sort of thinking old people are better per se. It’s more about just a bit of reverence and reciprocity and all this sort of thing that is very important in these more collectivist sort of cultures. And a lot people will say, “Oh well, we should really strive for equality,” which is true. That’s an important aspect of any culture in any, particular, Western culture. And I think that’s sort of elder respect isn’t really about not being equal, it’s just something about group harmony is so important in those really highly intergenerational cultures that I think that by having this sort of elder respect just keeps things very harmonious and that’s what’s paramount for those intergenerational ways of living. But I think the byproduct of that is perhaps you then just tend to be a bit more mindful of how you regard older people and particularly, the very older types of people and I feel like that’s perhaps something that’s informed my attitudes to aging and my interest in aging.   Sundae: But it feels like a reversal of a youth-obsessed culture, let’s say in the United States where there is disrespect for people who are older, they are infantilized etc, etc. So it I’m wondering and this is all. So I’m curious about the cross-cultural research if people are treated better in those collectivistic cultures because I know elder abuse is a problem. It’s also a problem as well in Australia, right? So do you see patterns in attitudes to aging and how people are treated?    Natasha: Yes. I have to say that, unfortunately, ageism and things like elder abuse can occur in collectivist cultures and it’s known from a recent report from the World Health Organization that one in two people have moderate to high ageist attitudes. However, I think that when you have cultures where individuals are sort of raised to be mindful of keeping group harmony with this idea that they probably should show some respect to their elders. I think that informs your thinking as you go up that not only is that a great thing to keep group harmony within the family structures but it’s also for your own sort of psyche around aging and your own future self, you’ll feel better. Because we know from the research that Professor Becca Levy, and many others in that space do, that as we transition through aging as we get older, if we haven’t had more of these more positive attitudes around aging, when we were younger, our own negative attitudes can actually turn on us as we get older. And that’s one of the things that we sort of are recognizing, now, more and more with the research.   Sundae: How does that work? How does our attitude to aging impact our lifespan? Like, what’s going on biochemically or what’s going on energetically that makes that impact?    Natasha: So, that is a really great question because I think it is more than obviously just sitting down one day and thinking, “Okay, I’m going to just, you know, flip my idea about being negative and be positive,” all of a sudden. That’s a great start but I think what it is is- and it’s because these studies have been done over 20, 25 years and different kinds, discrete lab-based ones, longitudinal ones, connecting it to health and things like that. So it’s very difficult to just pinpoint one mechanism. But what many of the studies are pointing to is sort of like how powerful the mind is, the expectation of how you can age can really impact the way you actually age.    But I think there’s a number of things along the way that could point to why this is probably such a powerful finding and some studies have found that people who embrace their aging more realistically and positively probably tend to pay more attention to the actual things that help as well, like on the on the health side. And yeah, so all of these things that can add up incrementally on a daily basis. But really it’s like the, I’ve described it before, like the invisible hand that helps you along your aging journey, is the really having those positive attitudes. And when I say positive, more like like positive and realistic at the same time.   Sundae: Exactly. Yeah. So here’s an example, there’s two examples, I think about:   So I’m a runner. I run regularly. I’m not an impressive runner, but I do run regularly. And I know when I was 35, I saw someone running, who was probably 75. And I said to myself, “Sundae, if you do not get serious about running more regularly, you will not be a person who can run at 75.” And not that I will be able to do that. Not that someone has more value than someone who can’t run at 75. I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is for me, in of my identity, I would love to be able to run at 75 and because I saw people running who were probably in their 70s, I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is possible.” Is it exceptional? Maybe and that is also a bit dangerous, right? That exceptionalism. But I thought, “Why not? Why can’t I try?”    And I think the same thing comes to what I’m learning also about sex in aging. It’s so hidden. Like old people don’t have sex or like, “Oh that’s gross.” Are you kidding me? We still are sexual beings throughout our age, and it might change, but what I’m learning is like, oh, you can have a healthy sex life. And it might transform and change. But in in your 70s and I watched my own grandfather, oh my gosh, my own grandfather live till he was 92, and I watched him get a girlfriend. She was like in her 60s, it was a little controversial in the old folks’ home and he had this beautiful romance in his 90s, like late 80s, early 90s, and I thought, “Oh, it’s possible.” Love. You don’t stop falling in love because you turned 70 and because it wasn’t hidden from me, I just have so much more excitement and hope about aging. Because I think in our media, and I want to hear more about what you the impact of media on our attitudes, I think when we consume things from the media, we often mistake it for a mirror of reality, and we know that’s not true, right? So, do you have more information about the impact of media and stereotypes and how it impacts our own attitudes?    Natasha: Yeah, I read a little bit about that in my research and I predominantly talk about or focus in on what I describe as; the twin prejudice of ageism sexism in media portrayal. And one of articles I’ve written about was I described it or titled it: The Media Portrayal of Older People, The Good, The Bad and The Absent. And really what I’m referring to is that beyond a certain age women roles just drop off. And that one of the issues around why I think intergenerational and cultivation of those relationships is really important is because like your example you have an exemplar, role model, like your grandfather. Or for example my auntie remarried in her 80s. And it’s very possible to have a long life and experience all the things that you experience when you’re younger it’ll just perhaps be in a different way, in a different style of relating. And so the thing is with the media, we don’t have many examples. Although I do love Grace and Frankie, that’s a great example of older grown up relationships in older age.    But with the literature review I did and people have done other research on this, and they showed that like particularly in children’s programming out of like a huge sample of programs, however, many hours to get hundred percent characters. I think it was like between two and seven percent were old or older, for example, and out of those that very small portion, they were usually portrayed as senile, feeble, and useless, type of thing. And so kids, were like sponges and absorb everything, social categories, every other category. And as you know, children enter school, they’ve already formed stereotypes and so that only becomes worse. I think potentially with social media and just the level of media that we’re taking in every day, if there’s no change in the narrative, and for example, for females, the idea that they are only valuable, if they look a certain way and exist between the ages of And 35 or 40, that’s not a very healthy kind of way to think about ourselves as we age, right? And to have self-advocacy and empowerment and things like that and it does impact us. Because if we’re not seeing as you said the reality in the pervasive media reflecting back to us versions of ourselves that are considered empowering and exemplars and it does impact us.    And so it’s not to say men don’t experience ageism and they certainly do particularly in work and other activities like that. But if we talk about the media, I really feel that women’s roles in media are diminished. I don’t know if this is exactly ageism but there has been a lot of conversation recently about the Canadian television reporter, anchor, who was quote to quote blindsided and there was reports of-   Sundae: Yeah. Lisa LaFlamme.    Natasha: Yeah, Lisa LaFlamme.   Sundae: Right. And we also we had this conversation in a recent discussion with Ashton Applewhite in a community group when we talked about this double bind that women have. For example the same week, the Finnish prime minister got blasted because she is being in her 30s and going out and having fun. Not that, you know, how do you How do you show up with whatever energy you have? Do you have permission to do that? Do you not have permission? And so we’re seeing it. We’re seeing people blasted. And the question is, why does it matter? It’s because women when it comes to ageism, have more to lose because of the power dynamic, that historically has been going on.    Natasha: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And even in everyday language, we don’t- this is where the implicit bias, is that we’re not even sure or realize that there until something’s playing out. For example, I was discussing this recently, I think it was probably one of my post threads, and just the language we use when for example, I was describing something as sort of lesson when I was doing gender studies when I returned to go study. And I said to someone, a male that I know, I said, “Language is so subtle but It can be so powerful. And what if I said to you about a male, ‘he’s that kind of guy.’” And he said, “I have no idea what you mean. What are you talking about?” And I said, “Well, what if I said to you about a female, ‘she’s that kind of girl.’” And he said, “Oh well, we all know what that means.” You know, so subtle-    Sundae: And it gives me, honestly, it physically gives me a pit in my stomach. It went from my pit up into my throat because you said that immediately my body could feel the shame and judgement. And there might be listeners here like, “I still don’t get it.” Because it’s like, you can’t be that kind of girl, right? Because then you’re easy. You’re not to be respected etc. And it’s like, wow, that’s powerful, when you frame that, the subtleness of the implicit bias. Do you mind sharing, what are some of the biases that you’ve discovered about yourself during your research?    Natasha: Yeah, I think it’s interesting because I caught up with an old friend who I hadn’t seen since I was a child but she works at the University in a different section. And she said, “Oh, I saw you discussing aging on something recently,” and she said to me, she was having a joke with her sister in a very like fun joking way, she goes, “Oh imagine if Natasha had Botox or something,” right? And I said, “Yeah, no, I’ve never tried that. But whatever, I’m not judging if people want to try that.” I said, “But I do dye my hair and it’s mainly because I suppose I’ve always had dark hair and I’d be happy for it to all go gray. But it’s not going gray all at once. It’s just like these little bits here. And so I’m still mindful that it’s just it suits me to keep it even.” And when it’s at a point where I can make it more, sort of less even or whatever, or more even then, I’d be happy to kind of transition, whatever. And that is actually a really interesting transition for so many women like, hair is such a massive transition. And so, it was on my radar and so yeah. So it’s just, I know what the research says but my lived experience is kind of-   Sundae: Right? And we see, like an award winning newscaster, again, we don’t know for sure but there is a hunch or a suspicion that potentially, because she’s gone gray, she no longer suits the viewers tastes. I think that was one of the quotes that came. Hey, I do with myself. I don’t know. I’ve got some some gray rock in here and I’ve asked myself, “How do I want to show up if I am graying and I’m working to sort of undo my own biases on all the many, many levels.” Is their hypocrisy in continuing to balance the hair, like you said, the blending or is it my goddamn choice?    Natasha: Yeah.    Sundae: That’s the whole thing. And that’s something I’ve learned from Ashton Applewhite in her work is it’s nobody else’s business. I get to choose what I do. But I will interrogate that, I will look at what feels right for me, and I’ll know if I’m betraying myself or my values. And we can’t say Botox is a perfect example. I used to be super judgy about women who did Botox. And I was judgy women who actually were like, who took care of themselves. Basically, who cared about their appearance, I was intellectualizing, “It’s about being smart, not beautiful.” So I was trying to resist patriarchy by saying, “Let’s be smart, not beautiful.” And I was like, well, “Why can’t you be both? Why is it one or the other?” So it’s my own undoing. I think it’s just important that we have these conversations.    Natasha: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like you said, it’s not entirely just one thing or the other. We’re always in a process of integration. We’re always integrating different aspects of our own identity. I love that Justine Bateman has written that I started listening to, and she’s really putting it out there, and loud and proud about her aging journey, which I think that’s fantastic. I did see a post because I follow a lot of people who are interested in this area,  it was a recent post about Kim Kardashian and it was a bit of a having a bit of a dig at her. She might have said something off the cuff, like, in my quest to stay young or looking young, if I had to, I would eat poop every day. Which is like – really sounds awful. And she a lot of people grabbed onto that and just said how terrible and desperate that is.    And I was asked for some commentary on that. And I think it’s like there are extremes that people feel like we’ve been socialized to think again, about that narrow band of what’s beautiful and what’s valuable for females to be. And so I wouldn’t want to like shame someone like Kim Kardashian, or anyone who has those sort of like desires to be extreme. I feel like it’s more of as Becca Levy points to in her book, it’s really the culture that is to blame, in of what we’ve been socialized to feel ashamed about. And so, I guess that’s kind of when we talk about all these like what are we feeling in our own selves? And I know what all the research says, I also know what being a woman in my early 50s is, internally, the subjective experience. Yeah.    Sundae: Yeah. And I’m so grateful for everyone out there, who is continuing the conversation, challenging norms, I know that takes courage. Staying in line with a culture is important. It could be even critical to your life depending on which cultural context you live in. So, I don’t want to delineate the critical nature of conforming to a culture in some context, right? Because it has huge – it could have financial implications on you, it could impact your life, your access to your children. Really, I don’t want to minimize that. And at the same time, I also appreciate those who are pushing the edges on cultural norms to create more space.   Natasha: Absolutely, you know, I recognize that we live in a world of rich and interesting different cultures. I was very fortunate to grow up, not only with two different cultural backgrounds, but my father was a diplomat, Australian diplomat, and he was very embracing and understanding of different cultures. But it is good to have a platform or opportunities to how some of the cultural issues that we swallow hook, line, and sinker, can impact our own psychology. And I think that’s what we doing on this sort of conversation here.   Sundae: And so I’m curious, you talked about integration, what I love about some of your work, you talk to as well about transformation and that’s another thing that we have in common. I’d love to hear more from you about how you see your work connected to transformation. And particularly, you talk about purpose. One of your favorite quotes that you mention, “Is you belong to your purpose before you belong to yourself.” Can you unpack that for us?    Natasha: Yeah, that’s really – I started writing this blog Mobilising Wisdom after I finished my PhD looking at cross-cultural attitudes to aging mainly because alongside my formal studies that I returned to, I also went on a kind of an inner journey of inner work if you like. And like many people had lots of transitions and got a divorce in my late 30s, early 40s. And when the world was kind of swirling around me, I’m trying to complete studies. I’m a single parent, I decided on going to work out how to sort of calm myself and self-regulate. And I found this Buddhist meditation dropping class, and found that as a way to anchor myself. But it also served as a way to expand my perception beyond, my own narrative, my own little personal monkey mind as some people would call it, you know.   Sundae: Oh God, I got one of those, I got one of those too.    Natasha: Yeah, we all have monkey mind every single day. And so, this is a way, just a personal thing that, I’ve been able to use sometimes. I still get overtaken and overwhelmed by the monkey mind, every now and then, but then this is a circuit-breaker to help me just drop back into a deeper level of being. And that combined with the sort of studies that I was doing, which at the time was psychology but also I was doing some philosophy and Western philosophy, Chinese philosophy. So for whatever reason that cocktail or combination of things came together that allowed me to continue. Just really expanding my perception and trying to really attune to what are some of the subjective experiences and how can that inform this whole, really trying to understand self-perceptions of aging and personality and all that kind of thing.    So I did that whole journey and then continued, we’re always continuing. But I feel like at certain points, it just really converged and helped provide a little bit of insight that sometimes people can resonate with. So the blog is not – I refer to some of my academic research because that’s naturally what would happen but at the same time – it’s mostly just a sharing of that inner experience. To, as kind of an offering for other people who are in my age group or want to understand more about culture and how that impacts different perceptions. And then because it’s my research, particularly to do with transitioning through life stages, midlife and beyond kind of thing.    Sundae: Hmm. So what would you, if we wanted people are walk away with one or two practical things on how they can start shifting their attitude to have more positive one, and Ashton Applewhite says more realistic, right? Not just positive for positive sake but actually realistic more realistic perceptions of aging. what are one or two things that we could do?    Natasha: So it would be really just to be aware, just to start being aware, you know. I think because we are so bombarded with daily messages whether it’s social media or television or streaming programs. Just to start to be aware of some of the language of the way that aging is framed, and that’s a very powerful thing in itself. To shine the spotlight of awareness on something is incredibly powerful. And then the second thing would be to realize and I think this is like a lot of what Becca Levy talks about in her fantastic book, Breaking the Age Code which I highly recommend, is to realize-, she’s got this ABC method – the B is for Blame. Blame, blame the the surrounding culture, not in the way that we are trying to diminish it, that we know it’s important, but that it can also have its downside. So, the downside is that ageism is given a . It’s still the most socially-condoned prejudice. So there’s that.    And so, you realize that your own negative age attitudes, the ones that we talked about, we still deal with gray hair or that kind of stuff is because of mostly the culture, right? So that we’ve internalized that. So once you start to shine the spotlight of awareness on it and then you realize it’s not entirely just something intrinsic to you. It’s something being very powerful influences and then is to really start changing that in some way. To push back on it. Have these conversations, really unpack those little implicit biases. How powerful the subtle of the way subtly frame things are. And then just try and be comionate with yourself about it and comionate with others that you’re having these conversations with. I  have very robust conversations about this and we’re all still finding our way and sometimes. It does get a bit like very heated. And there’s no one way to say we can’t be ageist or there’s lots of different views and I think holding, just having space for all of the views is a really good thing if that’s possible.    Sundae: Absolutely. I think it’s also important. We talk about the other prejudices and biases. One of the things that I – because I have been working on my social justice commitment, and looking at how am I showing up to contribute to unfair dynamics? What can I do to break down and part of me initially resisted even thinking about ageism because we have other important ageisms, where people’s lives are, literally being lost, right? And so I was conflicted at that and then the more that I read the work, the more I realize that ageism is like the intersection across all biases when identities – and it sounds really nerdy like are compounded. When you intersect race and age or your sexual identity and age that then it makes all of those amplified, ability status, etc.    So it feels like, although I wanted to resist that in the beginning, I’m actually seeing an opportunity for a unification of awareness for people who might have their radar only on one thing or only on another. It might expand our awareness to other ways in which people are being disadvantaged or privileged. I just wanted to say that. It’s important to put that out there in the conversation.    Natasha: Yeah, absolutely. I think ageism is one of the unfortunately “isms.” Obviously, there’s intersectionality with, with race and gender and then also, there is unequal aging in of whatever life trajectory you’ve experienced in of the socioeconomic position that you’ve been born into. So there’s all of these things that come into it and social justice is absolutely important for marginalized groups. And then of course, we’re all aging so that is a big unifying force. So you know if we can kind of recognize that the way that we’ve additionally been seeing older people and aging population. And stop really only framing it as negative, and recognize that realistically we decline in the life course and we eventually die but there’s a huge opportunity with this longevity we’ve gained over the last century to bring our attitudes more in line with the longevity we have, right? We’ve grown kind in of the longevity another 30 years over the last century where we are living now to 80 and 90. But our attitudes seem to be going in the opposite direction.    Sundae: Yes, that’s so interesting. There’s so much more I want to talk about but I wanted to turn our attention a little bit to you. If you don’t mind you mentioned about your own personal transformation and one of the things that I’m committed to is Ambitious Transformation in Transition, right? Our lives are constantly in transit. So many layers, whether it’s health or family or profession and so that’s just one way to think about. I’m curious, what are some of the transitions that you’re feeling right now?    Natasha: Yeah so I’m in my early 50s, my youngest is completing high school, I’m sort of feeling like it won’t be much longer now until I’m almost like an empty nest situation. But interestingly also because I returned to studies in my 30s and kept going and then got a postgraduate degree in my 40s. I’m sort of in a stage where most of my colleagues are younger than me. I’ve sort of reinvented myself in a new role in academia and so I’m kind of still in the early career level as a, you know. So and then, just as a person in her early 50s, I guess last year was a year of many things. The year before, unfortunately, my mom ed away just at the beginning of the pandemic and it intersected with menopause.    Sundae: Oh my gosh.   Natasha: And all of these great things and also trying to carve a path in this new career, after deciding, in my wisdom to go back and study. So you know, this is a lot.    Sundae: Mmm, that’s exactly why I talk about life in transit because look at all that you’re holding on your shoulders, right? That is incredible. And so I’m thinking about, when we think about the transformation that’s going on that is shaping us. Sometimes it’s internal, I think, I’ve seen that in your work as well like you hear a whisper of something inside. Or it could be something external, an unexpected divorce or the COVID crisis, whatever it might be. Or it could be something ambitious, like a performance goal that you have. Are you feeling all of those right now? Is one tugging on you more than the other? Tell me more about where your tug in your own transformation process.    Natasha: It’s funny. I was looking, you know, at those three dimensions and feeling like I am absolutely being pulled in every single direction of those, internally, externally. And so I actually message someone’s to a colleague today describing my workday or my work life currently, and I used a Dolly Parton quote I love. I said, “I’m busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking competition.”    Sundae: *laughter* That’s fantastic. Yeah. So that’s a lot. So with all of that in consideration, how would you define ambitious right now? For me because I am a “doer,” ambitious means doing less actually. So ambitious has to be outside the scope or scale, externally defined, you need to define it. So what is ambitious for you?    Natasha: Yeah, it’s interesting, I think ambitious for me in this stage of life is very different to what ambitious meant for me in my 20s and 30s. I think it’s also many people report this as they get older and sort of midlife and beyond, that sort of like gaining aspects of your identity and goals. And it’s a bit of an ego project, when you’re younger. It’s not to say we don’t have egos when were older, but I feel like it’s about, trying to strip some of that back and let some of that stuff go. And also, I feel like I have put so much out there into the into the universe or just out there generally that now I’m just riding the wave of what’s been created and trying to not strive as much but really trying to just steer my way through these waves that created.   It’s so wonderful. So I know our time is coming to a close. I’m just curious. What are you working on right now that you think it’s important for people to check out?    Natasha: Well in my research I’m just about to launch a study where people – it’s called its acronym is DECODE but that stands for Daily Life Context and Age-Based Judgments. And what it is, it’s a study within a project that my supervisor current density has called, “The lab without walls,” and it’s a short four-week study, but I’m I’m inviting participants of all ages or over 18, 80 and beyond to sign up and give me a sense of each day whether they experience or become aware of any age based judgments in a set of domains like, work or to do with health or to do with their finances.    A set of domains, that’s been researched to show that both younger and older people experience age-based judgments. And so I’m going to be launching that soon locally in Sydney in the lab where that was, and will be interesting to sort of see. I’ll be asking people about subjective age, every single day, they’re just report to me, how are they feeling today? Because some days I feel like 20 and other days I feel like my menopausal 52 year-old, you know what I mean? And so it’ll be interesting to see across the age groups how consistent that is. Because often older people report feeling younger, a lot of the time as well. There’s so much. Yeah, so much to unpack there.    Sundae: I’m just fascinated. I think when we look at the impact of attitude on health, I look at my parents, they live young in their hearts and their attitudes and you physically see it. It’s incredible. It’s almost embarrassing like, when they go to their high school reunions, they like are like, “You guys are in the wrong reunion.” They really stick out but it is because of that inner fire that they feel, I think it impacts their health and all of that. So I love that. I want high quality of life. However people define it for each and every person. So if we can access that through our attitudes and that can actually impact the quality of our life individually, and also for others that I don’t put those things on others, I think it’s a beautiful place to start.    So thank you so much for sharing your research and your wisdom. Oh my gosh. I just love that.   Natasha: No, thank you. Sundae: It’s been wonderful. And my inner academic is just so excited to hear about the research. I appreciate it so much. And for those who have been listening, I hope you will take away the one thing she said about how powerful shining a spotlight is at awareness because that can impact then how we’re showing up for ourselves and how are showing up for others. So I will close on one of Natasha’s favorite quotes from Mark Twain: “The two most important days are the day you were born and the day you know why.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 289: Aging & Positive Psychology with Natasha Ginnivan appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

We’re slowly recovering from the damaging loneliness felt globally throughout the pandemic. Think about it. Typically, we have two main places where we interact with others: work and home. Of course, many people live alone, work remotely, or do both. That’s why there’s a growing need to combat isolation by participating in a safe, consistent “third” space. Even better if it’s intergenerationally woven, like a community center, faith-based congregation, local coffee shop, or even a virtual clubhouse like our IN TRANSIT Hub. BIG NEWS! In case you missed previous announcements, podcasts will now *also* be available on VIDEO! So you can listen, read, or watch the episodes right here. Additionally, they’ll be released through a new Bean Pod format; three threaded episodes, followed by an introspective break week. Welcome to the second part of our Bean Pod featuring professionals disrupting norms. I’m honored to have Rabbi Hayim Herring us to discuss how intergenerational communities enhance our societies and improve our quality of life.  An expert intergenerational bridge-builder, Rabbi Herring holds a Ph.D., is an author several times over, and is the C.E.O. of HayimHerring.com. His work prepares today’s leaders for tomorrow’s organizations. Today, Rabbi Herring will share his life-prolonging wisdom, and advice on fostering a stronger community in our highly polarized times. He’ll also discuss his next project which centers on combating social isolation and connecting generations in the digital age.   What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Renaissance instead of retirement The footlong submarine generation Mindfully shaping a more vibrant reality Waiting to be invited to take on a role Developing a posture of curiosity Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Do you want to transform your organization from multigenerational to intergenerational? We can help! Get in touch right here and let’s chat. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Wisdom Fusion Project Connecting Generations: Bridging the Boomer, Gen X, and Millennial Divide (Rowman and Littlefield 2019) The sandwich generation HayimHerring.com Hayim Herring – LinkedIn     We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 10:00 pm in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   If I’m being honest, loneliness, social isolation, and polarization are three of the most painful things I’ve experienced. And who hasn’t experienced some or all of that since 2020? Questions I have are: How do we cope? What can we do to reduce the sting of these experiences or even prevent them? And I think the answer is much more simple than you’d expect, and it’s connected to intergenerational relationships.    Our special guest today Rabbi Hayim Herring offers answers in his book Connecting Generations. Rabbi Hayim Herring, thank you for being here on IN TRANSIT.    Hayim: Thank you. Good morning.    Sundae: So I want to share more about the book but first, let me acknowledge your own place of being in transit right now. You have so kindly agreed to be together today even though you’re recovering from surgery. So I thank you for your impromptu ability to find a space in your home where you can be comfortable in this process. So thank you for your flexibility today.   Hayim: Well, thank you for allowing me to be a guest, first of all, and to be a guest from my bedroom, which has become my study, my dining room because the surgery wasn’t planned before our home remodel was, but I have a sense of humor. There’s some irony in this, I guess, and maybe a metaphor. I feel like the remodeling of my home to adapt to COVID, is sending me a message about the interior remodeling that I have to do. So apologies for the background but hey, that’s life today and we just have to learn to not just to accept it but to embrace it.   Sundae: Absolutely. And for those of you who are also watching the video version of this, you can see my mother from the 60s in the background and some beauty pageant option. So, we are both in transit in some way. So, thank you for being here.    I want to share a little bit about your book for those who have not yet read Connecting Generations, it’s actually how I came across your work. Connecting Generations, identifies and analyzes these phenomena I was talking about before; Loneliness, social isolation, and polarization. You probably wouldn’t expect that when you pick up a book called Connecting Generations, but it offers so much more than analysis of what’s happening. Like a precursor to what we need to look out for. It also s us in becoming more empathetic for ourselves and others. And offers direction on how we can shape more mindfully a vibrant reality, as you say in the book for ourselves from our immediate communities, and for society at large. So, what you’re doing is big.    I’m gonna give the listeners also, a little background on who you are and what you bring to this conversation. Rabbi Hayim Herring is Ph.D. and CEO of HayimHerring.com and coaches nonprofit leaders in entrepreneurship, anticipatory leadership, and intergenerational relationships. His mission is preparing today’s leaders for tomorrow’s organizations. Wow, that’s what we need right now since everything is shifting. He’s also served as a congressional Rabbi for Beth El Synagogue in Minneapolis, Minnesota, is an assistant director of the Minneapolis Jewish Federation, and is the founding director of STAR (Synagogues: Transformation and Renewal).   There’s many more things in addition to scholarly work, popular articles, but what I’m most excited about as well, is your forthcoming work, Calling Generation to Generation in Digital Age. So, how did you get here, Hayim? Tell us a little bit more about what led you to this point where you’re talking about intergenerational relationships, isolation, connection and all of it.   Hayim: As a very young Rabbi starting out in a congregation in 1985 in Minneapolis, after being in school, for many, many years. No one had ever prepared me for the fact that in the morning, I might be working with preschool children, in the afternoon I might be working with retired people, men, women, maybe in a book club. Afternoon teaching high school kids, and in the evening out again at a meeting typically with leaders. I learned quickly that one-size-fits-all and how to approach people was a recipe for failure. And I found a book, I think it was one of the first on generations, called, Generations at Work. Turns out that it was written by someone in Minneapolis who ed away at a young age. And I feel like I’m spiraling back now and have time now to devote to a topic that’s really been dear to my heart. And that’s why one can never predict how an interest that starts off early will blossom later.    Sundae: Absolutely, that’s beautiful. So you and I were speaking before about how we’re facing all of these challenges due to COVID, due to history, context, identity, all of these things that are happening, not just in the US where you’re located, but globally. Can you say a little bit more about why? What we were saying that intergenerational relationships are what I believe a old solution for new problems? Can you say more about what you’ve noticed about the benefits of being in community across generations?   Hayim: Sure. I have generally agreed that we have an old solution to a new problem but I think we also have to adapt that old solution. And what I mean is, before people talked about the sandwich generation, I think it was a sociologist by the name of Dorothy Miller who coined that term back in 1981, early 80s. Back then the sandwich generation and I check this out, I think an average slice of sandwich bread is something like 4 to 6 inches square, right? The sandwich metaphor is there’s a slice on top, a slice on the bottom, something in the middle. The person in the middle was typically a woman who was raising children, taking care of elderly parents or in-laws, trying to maintain a job. So you had the caretaking the children in the bottom and the caretaking of the elders on the top.    Today I think depending on where you live, it’s more like a hoagie or submarine generation. And it’s a foot long and we have not six but seven generations now. So it can’t really be a sandwich. And the other thing that’s different is that it used to be that only one generation typically felt certain pressures, might be retirement, might be health. But now everybody is vulnerable. It might be the Boomer parent who’s out of work or the Gen-Xer who is being challenged by a Millennial and may lose a job right now. Or the economy, the way it is. And maybe it’s a younger person who is actually enjoying work. So we’re all – that’s why we need each other. Right? I mean, we all have to think about not to continue the food metaphor but being Jewish food is a big part of community. It’s like we have to feed each other.    There’s a wonderful story about the difference between Heaven and Hell. In Hell, everyone is sitting in front of a sumptuous banquet but their elbows are locked. In Heaven, it’s the same thing. But the difference is that people feed each other across the table.   And that’s what I think is so wonderful when you make those connections. It’s good for the soul, it’s good for wisdom, it’s good for life. I mean, literally, it’s life-prolonging. We become excited by learning new things, by meeting new people, and America I believe is the most age-segregated society in the Western World. So we’ve got a problem.    Sundae: It’s awful. Yeah and combine that with the level of ageism that is recorded. It makes it far more complicated. All right so this is big. So through your work that you’ve done in the past and are working on? What are some of the myths that you are hoping to debunk in the world and if that language doesn’t resonate? What are the messages that you’re hoping to help communicate that aren’t yet in our consciousness.   Hayim: Okay, so that’s a great question by the way. So let’s talk about the myth part. First, I want to use Boomers even though they are on their way out, finally, I’m one of them. *laughter*    Sundae: *laughter*    Hayim: I mean, we do have to make room. I want to talk about the case of a Boomers versus Millennials a kind of mini case study. Because as you point out in your podcast the context will change, the labeles, generational labels will change. But the reality of having four or five generations in the workplace with mutual stereotyping will not change. So as a part of my research and it was really hard as a Boomer to not respond to the Millennials, but I had my research hat on. So I asked Millennials when you hear the word, “Boomer,” what do think of? What comes to mind?    So, for Millennials, they perceive Boomers, first of all, “What’s wrong with their bucket list? Why can’t they have fun while they work?” And, “Why do they think that they are entitled?” This was Millennials calling Boomers entitled, meaning by dint of their age or seniority, they just assume they’ll be in a leadership position. “All they care about is work. They’re obsessed with work. They don’t know how to have fun. They don’t want to relinquish anything.”   And then when I asked Boomers their perception of Millennials, they use words like, “Snowflake,” which is really demeaning. What they talked about was, “They want to kick the bucket, they want to have fun now. That’s not the way we used to do it. They’re pleasure seekers. They can’t commit. They’re indecisive. They’re insecure.”    So what I took away from this is that no one has a monopoly on stereotyping and each generation stereotypes the other. So that’s the myth part.  Sundae: I want to just talk about the stereotypes for a second because this, and I know this through research but maybe our listeners don’t. What I’ve learned in this process is that those stereotypes are, I want to say exaggerations or even fabrications when we look at the data, right? That people attribute it to that other group, but it might be based of phase of life where it might be actually just not true and something exploded into our consciousness because it was a click baitey title from media. And this I think is really important because as an interculturalist when we have a stereotype and we engage with someone and we’re looking for that affirmation, we’re actually looking for evidence that it’s true. We do not see the full person and we might also see something that isn’t even there. And I think that’s dangerous. It’s dangerous for our relationships. It’s also dangerous, I think, for our sense of self because then we might also believe the stereotypes about what they say about our generation and sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It just is so limiting,    Hayim: I’m so glad that you followed up with that question. So, when I interviewed Millennials and my children are Millennials. I didn’t interview them, but I’ve gotten to know them quite well over the years and their friends. They have really big hearts. They’re not all about pleasure. I interviewed Millennials who were volunteering for the Special Olympics, who were on a crisis hotline, who were like a big brother or big sister, who were giving back to their communities, like totally out of line with the stereotype of “pleasure seekers.”    And then of course I interviewed Boomers who just relish having someone to mentor. And not the control, but really to mentor, genuinely to share experience, skills, to share power, to share authority, to provide emotional because our Millennial children are, I would say, somewhat more fragile. Their sense of self is not as secure. And the stereotypes are so damaging because you can dislike or even hate a stereotype, but in that real meeting, it’s more likely that you’re going to wind up really connecting with them. And that’s where the phrase perennial for me is so important. I didn’t coin the term. I’m using it differently than the person who did so I have a black thumb. I could actually make an artificial plant die and it takes a lot of skill.    Sundae: I think we’re soul mates.    Hayim: *laughter* I mean, I can’t help it. I grew up in Philly, I lived in New York. It’s terrible, the only time I used the shovel was at the cemetery. It’s a terrible thing to say. But some friends of mine, good friends are gardeners. One day a friend of mine was talking about his perennials and describing how it’s the same root system, but every year, the flowers die off, they form seeds for the next iteration, they’re nourished from the same root system. But they look different, but you could also see similarities. And I was stopped in my tracks. I thought, “Wow, that is the human task,” right? It’s really to relinquish that which has restrained us. To retain that which is still helpful. And then, to make sure that we’re planting seeds for renewal that still has some continuity with the past. It doesn’t matter what age you are, you may not have the awareness depending upon your human development stage, that that’s what you’re a part of. But that’s something that I think by making – by articulating explicitly we can be reminded, “Oh, we each have a role in this. We have a stake in one another’s success.”    Sundae: No, no. That’s so beautiful because when I hear that I also hear that growth, it’s in our design if we’re doing it in a way that is intended so to speak. And it made me think of a quote that I came across when I was preparing for this interview, it’s from Fred Small. And he talks about, “Perhaps the greatest justice issue of all is intergenerational theft. The Eighth Commandment says, ‘Thou shalt not steal.’ But every day we live unsustainably, we steal from our children and their children.”    So this idea of like our we are stewards of our lives, of our community, but also of generations that follow us. I don’t – I don’t know how often I hold that awareness in my own planning, in my own goals, right? But it is like you said it’s embedded in who we are as a humanity. Right?    Hayim: I’m not sure that I held this awareness until maybe I reached age 50. Which was extremely liberating because I really felt like I was at a point where, of course, I wanted to be sensitive and empathetic to people, but it became very important to be more of what I believe in and what I value. So maybe it’s the responsibility of those who are at this stage to make more explicit what it is that we share. And it never goes down well to lecture people. Like for people who are older to lecture people who are younger. But I think it’s in the shared work that we can do, that we can model those kinds of conversations. And I still don’t garden, but I love the idea of community garden, both for the metaphor and also for the opportunity to get to know people of different generations. Those kinds of activities are very fruitful. I think for restoring those connections.    Sundae: Yeah, I think that is a beautiful comparison. And I always talk about this idea of, “You can’t hate who you love.” Like, we can’t demonize or stereotype people that we actually care about and it’s hard to not care about someone when you are in community with them and creating something beautiful together. And that’s bigger than the crossing of age boundaries, right? We’re talking about ethnic boundaries, racial boundaries, political boundaries. I think there’s a lot that could be learned from that. So the other question that I started talking about was like, what do you wish was in our consciousness when you think about your book? Your Connecting Generations book and the one that’s coming. What are some core messages you hope that people hold on to?   Hayim: Sure, one of them is one of your ongoing themes in your work and that is empowerment. It doesn’t take an act of congress for somebody to reach out to another person in their community, their neighbor. To reach out to an organization that either offers mentoring opportunities or other kinds of volunteer opportunities, where you get to interact with people of different generations. It doesn’t take some sort of legal authority and I know this is risky today but when you’re standing in line – one of the Millennials whom I interviewed suggested this. She said, “When I’m standing in line at a grocery store sometimes I’ll just strike up a conversation with someone. And if I see someone older, especially, I’ll say boy, ‘I really like the coat that you’re wearing.’” And it’s just sort of multiplying these little kinds of acts on the structural level.    Why is it that we segregate ourselves in of housing? I hate the idea of a retirement community. First of all, I don’t like the word retirement because for me, it’s more like renaissance. If somebody asked me, “Are you retired?” I’m going to say, “No, I’m renaissanced.” because now –   Sundae: I’m going to use that one. But I think you have to start gardening if you’re going to be a renaissance man, you have to garden.   Hayim: Okay, well, we have a few plants on our deck. So start small. But because it is an opportunity to flower in new ways at this stage. But I really think that housing is such a big issue. There are apartments for people generally who are, let’s say Millennials or just starting out. There are neighborhoods where the people are too similar.    Sundae: Yes, absolutely.   Hayim: And I think that it just it is so unhealthy. We used to have neighborhoods where there were intergenerational connections that were organic. And I think that when a community center is built, a design of intergenerational should be interwoven. In some countries, they place pre-schools and kindergartens next to people who are in old age facilities. There’s like a town square and that way the older people are energized and who doesn’t love to hear the voice of young children. And at the same time, younger kids don’t fear or think that older people are without value.    So there are lots of things that can happen on the structural level, but if we wait until the structural level is solved, it may be too late. So what action steps can we take? Here’s a question I like to ask as part of the perennial challenge; Do you have at least one friend who is a generation up and a generation down?    Sundae: I would ask people if they look at, their WhatsApp or their social media, who are they messaging? Are they people from different generations? I did this eight-week intergenerational learning experience with women from 20 to 75 Last year, it is our year anniversary when we’re recording this. IT BLEW MY MIND. I thought I was going to go in there looking for themes like my qualitative researcher, the 20s say this, the 30s say that. That was not true at all. There was maybe only one theme where I found an age-related theme but the other themes ran through like red thread, painfully true, because of some of the challenges that women face as minority identity. And then add that to other minority identities that were there globally. But what I realized is, that I bring so many assumptions to my relationships and how I hold myself in relation to others.    So for example, I felt nervous when I was connecting the with the younger women, like they’re not going to think I’m cool. Right? Or relevant. And I caught myself feeling uncomfortable and it was limiting how I wanted to engage with them. I also caught myself because I was asking explicitly about intergenerational relationships. I learned what I have done in the past is I’ll take more of a mentor role, like an auntie role when they haven’t invited me to. So if they’re younger, I automatically think basically, I’m basically saying, “Don’t make the mistakes I made.” Right? But I haven’t been invited. Wait for an invitation or ask if they’re open to that. But what if we just connect as individuals? And I have learned so much from the younger women because they’ve gone through much harder life experiences, vastly different life journeys. So I have so much to learn Right in the same, goes the other way. Hmm,    Hayim: Well and that’s why I think being a learner, being curious, casting aside assumptions, it’s not possible to cast all the aside, but I think if – and I don’t know how one develops sort of a posture of curiosity, but for me it comes from my faith. And that is every person has his, or her hour, his, or her moment. If you’re open and you believe that all people are given the same dignity, equality, and freedom, then of course, I can learn something from everyone. I just have to be willing to pay attention.   Sundae: Right. Right. I also think we need to pay attention to what’s happening in ourselves. So we were at a restaurant and there was a woman celebrating probably her 80th, 85th birthday. And all of her friends were surrounding her and I noticed the dialogue in my head and I noticed the chatter with the people I was with. It wasn’t a default of dignity. It was, “Oh, that’s so cute.” Infantilizing elderly, or little shamey around like old-fashioned clothing or hairstyles. Like, watch what’s happening within ourselves. And I caught myself in that moment, like wanting to go there and be playful. And I thought, “No, that’s not dignity.” How can I be here in this moment, watch this celebration and honor their dignity? And when I walked out, I touch the– I looked down at the woman and I said, “Look at this amazing community you’ve created. Look at who is here to you today.” And I wouldn’t have seen that had I let myself go into the old default which mirrors all of the stereotypes that we have about people who are older.    Hayim: You know you’re reminding me of one of the triggers that led me to write this book so I have a bunch of cool old friends. One of them is my Rabbi, who is 94 and the other one is 103 year old. I’m sorry, he turned 104. Yeah, and every week when they’re in town and if not we either do it, by Skype or FaceTime depending upon what they each. Pretty cool at 94 and 104. Right? So we study our weekly Torah portion when we were together. Now, I’m the youngest in the group but 63. The 94-year-old turned to the 104-year-old at one point and said, “Hey Harold compared to you. I’m just a kid.”    Sundae: *laughter*   Hayim: So if you’re open, so much learning and wisdom and experience. And they said to me at one point early on in the research process, or when I was thinking about what I wanted to write on next, they said, “I don’t want to lead anything anymore. I don’t need to lead anything. I feel that I have something to offer.” Younger people are polite but other than saying, ”Hello, how are you?” I have no organic way of connecting with them and I love being with younger people. And these are people of caring families by the way. But they miss the interaction.    And at the same time, I too many times, I also have the ability to make my SmartWatch look dumb. I can be a little, a little slow of finger and I know sometimes that when younger people look at me, I kind of see a thought bubble, like, “What does he possibly know? He doesn’t know technology all that well, he’s trying, I’ve got to give him credit for that but I’ve got nothing to learn from him.”    So where’s the shared work that we can do? Age doesn’t matter. And it’s really who’s got the best experience for the task at hand.   Sundae: Right? Totally. There’s so much untapped potential and you said something about, how do we develop a posture of curiosity? I think that’s a wonderful, a wonderful question to ask ourselves. How do we tap into that ourselves? I also feel like there’s it can come when we’re put together in safe contexts. One of the things as an Interculturalist, we talk about Theory and this idea of, if you put people together they will learn. But that’s not true. It has to be like a shared power dynamic, equality, common goal.    So, how can we get ourselves into spaces where that is possible? And I think that is one way that the curiosity will emerge. When you’re in those safe spaces of shared power, shared goal, then naturally, I think that curiosity will come up or at least I hope, I hope it will come up.    Hayim: But I think another question that we might ask ourselves is what did it feel like think of a time when we were dismissed by someone. Where we weren’t taken seriously. And what did that feel like? And how might it feel like for the person at home, in my community, in my workplace? t’s really both simple and complex. But I think it all starts with the self because we don’t have the luxury of waiting for somebody else to do it for us. We can be empowered as you call upon us to be. What’s stopping us? Okay. Maybe we can’t change the whole world. We can change a part of it. We don’t have to wait until tomorrow. We could start today. If every one of your listeners would, I don’t want to say like hug a person of a different generation because that would be problematic but metaphorically reach out to someone.    Sundae: Yeah. Right.   Hayim: Who’s been really hurting? Who’s alone? Or who do you want to learn from? Who do you want to say “thank you” to who taught you something?   Sundae: Hmm. Absolutely. And this idea when you talked about, if you’ve been dismissed, that is something when you connect it to ageism applies to all generations. being. Yes, I worked for a consulting firm during and outside of college right away, and I was the youngest in the team. But I was leading the team of my incoming interns because I had the most experience, and it was an awkward dynamic to navigate. And my boss was a wonderful coach and she ed me in saying, “Yes, you’re the youngest but you’re the one who has been on the project the longest,” right?    So it’s easy to be dismissed on the end of the scale, we know in midlife. It’s easy to be dismissed. And then of course, in later years, so I love that question. I think everybody can feel that burning pain of when you have been dismissed.   Hayim: Yeah, I just think about Boomers who said, “Don’t trust anyone over 30,” and then now it’s like, “Don’t trust anyone under 60.” I see that happening a little bit with Gen-Xers who are sort of moving into that stage of life where parents are getting a little older. They might have their first sort of health events. They might be thinking of moving to a different location or a different country. And they’ve got still older child-raising responsibilities. And it’s like, “No, we just have to continue to try to remain an open posture,” and it’s so hard right now because we used to give people the benefit of the doubt. And now it’s like judgment, detriment of the doubt, “Of course, you’re out to harm me.” So it’s just so toxic right now. The challenge is more urgent,    Sundae: Right. Absolutely. So, can you say more about your forthcoming book? And your first book said so much. Why this next book? Why now?    Hayim: So Connecting Generations was really a journey for me out of my custom self. The book that I had written before, co-authored, was with a Protestant colleague of mine, Lutheran colleague, and I thought back then like, “I need to get out of my Jewish bubble, there’s a world out there and it smells like it’s starting to burn a little.” That was 7-8 years ago.  And then after that, the next logical step was sort of out of the faith-based world into the general community with Connecting Generations. And now I think it’s really fascinating for me that I can do both, and. I can write for the general community and for this book I’m writing for a more particular community, the Jewish community. Although again, it’s a case study because we’re all part of the human tribe. Now, there may be some idiosyncrasies so it’s called; L’Dor va-Dor (“From Generation to Generation”) in a Digital Age. And I surveyed over 650 Boomers, Gen Xers, Millennials, a few Gen Zers. The largest cohort, of course, was Boomers. We had a good representation of Gen Xers and Millennials. And I asked questions about, let’s at, on the community level, the potential shared action level. I asked each of all generations about pressing social issues like healthcare, guaranteed healthcare, immigrant reform, LGBTIQ discrimination, sexual violence and harassment in the workplace, climate change.    And there was remarkable agreement across the board, that everybody should be working on these issues. These should be a priority for the Jewish Community to engage with these broader issues in our community. So, so much for the myth of people of different generations not caring about these controversial issues. Across the board. And in fact, the highest percentage of caring and importance ed across these six or seven issues that I just mention right now. So, that to me sounds like a potential area that is right for intergenerational work.   Sundae: Yeah absolutely. But we need a space for that. We need a way. I created this experience and it was a call for people to me because there wasn’t a space to slot into. Do you know of spaces that people can currently slot into or maybe to create those spaces?   Hayim: Well, there are a few. I think that – and I’ve really looked far and wide and haven’t been able to find many, but potentially I think that congregations which are designed inherently to be intergenerational. Now they’re multi-generational most of them, you’re not intergenerational and just as you said before, just because you have people together of a different age, it doesn’t make it an intergenerational. It can just make it uncomfortable if you don’t have the right sort of facilitation and setting.    Sundae: Right?    Hayim: I’m sure you know that very well. But I think that congregations are one place where it’s possible. I think that community centers, non-sectarian community centers are possible places.  I think that before the pandemic, the idea behind Starbucks was to be that third place and that is not work, not family, but the place where people could come together, maybe get to know one another. It was modeled after, I think the pub in the UK. That was a place where people of different backgrounds came together, socialized. I think that recreating these third places, kind of post COVID or with COVID management is something that we need to think about. Unfortunately, when I look at the coffee houses around me, most of them have shrunk their footprint for the seating part and enlarged their footprint for the drive-thru pick up part only.    So I’ll point out one other example that I that I did during my research. So in Cleveland, there was the Cleveland, I think it was a Cleveland Conservatory of Musi. Next to it was a very a kind of retirement home. And somebody on the board of this retirement home had the brilliant idea of opening up a couple of apartments for these music students and having them live there. But in return, they had to offer– they had to practice publicly and they also had to offer a number of concerts during the year. And It was just so stunning to see strangers of different generations where someone who was older and retired became like the mate of the maid of honor at a younger person’s wedding that they connected with. Where young and old in the communal kitchen, right? Shared recipes.    And a lot of the people that had retired, they loved music. They had been involved in the arts. So what did it take? It took a board member and a CEO who I think when he first heard the idea, he thought he was going to be not only in charge of this housing development for those who were retired but also like a resident advisor for college students at the same time. But with the right kind of criteria, it really worked out. Why can’t we do more of that?    Sundae: Totally. I have my vision is – we talked about multi-generational means many generations present and intergenerational is where you actually have connection and communication, that goes from my background with Intercultural Communication. It’s not, “hey, here’s how the Japanese do it,” or “here’s how they do it there.” It’s about what happens when we come together. My challenge is in the corporate context. Our corporations are inherently multigenerational but are definitely not intergenerational in of safety, authenticity, connection, right? There’s so much hierarchy that goes into it and there’s a power dynamic that goes into that space. And my vision is; How can we encourage corporations to take their multi-generational organizations and help them be inner culture or intergenerational?  Because then, we’ve got mentorship that goes up and down the age levels. We’re creating trust in new ways. Engaging in new ways. My Hope Is that when you have that experience, it will then bleed out into your community life. Where you’re like, “Oh, that was really cool. I did a pop-up intergenerational thing at work and now I know it’s great to have relationships across generations. I want to do that in my community.”    Hayim: I hope that you’ll be successful because I think about the loss of wisdom, intergenerational wisdom because this isn’t that reciprocal, kind of mentoring. But I know in some smaller companies, for example, owners have experimented with rethinking, what are benefits? Because the benefits that somebody needs who is in their 50s is probably different from the benefits that somebody who may be paying off their student loans. So is having a one-size-fits-all benefit package, is that really a way to respect the generational needs?    I know that there are other companies where they might sort of bring people together from different generations and have each of them perform tasks that are uncomfortable for them. They’re out of custom range of what they do but they are in the range of what somebody in another generation does. And then sort of kind of process like what is that? It is a challenge to move bureaucracies, but sometimes in the nonprofit world, at least, I’ve been able to ask people, let’s run a beta. Much less threatening. It’s a beta. Okay, if it fails it fails and we’re going to learn something anyway. But to run a beta, with clear communication goals. My mantra is; Think big. Move fast. Start small. Assess. Communicate. Evaluate and then either close it up or close it down, or scale it up and take the learning. And then apply it to the next one.    Will larger corporations be willing? And maybe COVID has given us that perspective and maybe the confidence that we’re much more adaptable than we thought. And will larger corporations be willing to engage in more betas because they’ve gotten pretty good at it? What do you think?    Sundae: I hope so. I hope so. And I think engagement is the word that is relevant. How do I keep people engaged when people are disengaging or at a distance? I also think connected to this polarized world that we live in, connecting over generations is a safer place to start because our defenses aren’t as high compared to other identities that we hold. And from an intercultural perspective, if we are able to create a safe place to start and then we start to see the humanity and create a relationship we’re more open to expand the way we see someone on the areas that would be more polarized. That is so, I mean,  One way to make movement in a very, very challenging context.   Hayim: So again, I’m ing when my co-author and I started working on this book, this new book COVID hadn’t hit yet.   Sundae: Right. Right. Hayim:  Then we thought, during COVID, oh my gosh, COVID is kind of an accelerator for trends that are out there, digital trends that are out there, social trends that are out there, both, positive and negative. Then we had and I live in Minneapolis, the murder of George Floyd, which was just so, ugly, just so morally bankrupt and wrong, that led to the protest. So then we had the social protest coming with COVID. Then we had the political polarization. And I thought back and asked. Well, first of all, I asked my father, who’s 93, and my mom, who’s 90, “Do you ever a time in your life when society was so fragmented and divided and angry?” And they said, “No, we don’t, it never happened before.”    Historically, I realized that in the 60s we had the social justice protests, right? 70s were Watergate. And 80s, were the beginning of HIV/AIDS. So we had like some space in between both the social justice protest and the political issues that we had upheaval and then not a pandemic but certainly a big fear about how AIDS was decimating, first, the gay community and then people realized, “Oh, it’s not God’s punishment.” Of course. it’s not God’s punishment, that’s nonsense, you know. And here we have a trifecta of all three forces coming together. We’ve got COVID . We’ve got political polarization like we’ve never seen before. And then, of course, we also have, tragically the social justice protests could never be more relevant.    So we’ve never experienced this trifecta of forces before and they are non-stop. They are unsettling. Tomorrow is not like today, and how do you adapt to a world like that? But, here’s one thing that I took a lot of comfort in, when I watched the protests across the country, after George Floyd was murdered and saw People of Color and White people. I saw young people, I saw old people and everybody in between. There is so much power in shared intergenerational work. That are we going to what you know that we can be effective more effective together? And I really think that the onus is on some way people who are older because we have the ability, we’ve got the perspective, we’ve got the history, social justice is something that we started in the 60s, we abandoned it, we’re coming back to it now. We have to let people who are younger lead and we have to also lead from the side. Which means respect. It doesn’t mean that automatic like, “Oh, I have so much to teach you,” because if we did you wouldn’t be having this, again. But it also means we can take some risks.   Sundae: Yeah. Totally. It’s true. I want to end on hope. I want to focus on what is possible and I think it goes back to how we started. The answer is really right in front of our faces of just looking at ways that we can connect across the generations, ripping down our own stereotypes and assumptions first so that those connections will be richer. And then asking what is possible based on where we’re at. Absolutely.    Hayim: One reminder, these barriers, these intergenerational barriers are artificial. We erected them. So to your point about hope and empowerment, if we put them up we can take him down.    Sundae: Yes.    Hayim: And that to me is empowering. It’s really annoying I guess to live with an optimist.    Sundae: *laughter*    Hayim: That’s what my family tells me sometimes.    Sundae: Yes, yes.    Hayim: But why not? I mean. Okay. We can’t control everything, but we have more influence than we’re willing to accept because it’s scary because then we have to do something with it.    Sundae: Yeah, that’s right. My family criticizes me they say, “Mom, you’re always so positive.”    Hayim: *laughter* I hear ya.  I hear ya.   Sundae: *laughter* So let’s focus on you for a second. I mean, you see so much with the work that you do, you also live your own life, right? So do you mind if we shift on you for a second and look at where you’re ATT. We have ATT; Ambitious, Transformation in Transition. Which transitions are you feeling right now?    Hayim: Sure. So professionally I would say I’m on version 5.012 or whatever the number would be and I’m really enjoying focusing on writing, researching, meeting people. I’d like to do more in person. I think in about two weeks from now, my co-author and I are holding two intergenerational – structured intergenerational conversations that will be on soon. Hopefully, one day in person where instead of just talking about bringing generations together, we’re modeling that in our research to laugh and talk about shared things. So I love that aspect of my life right now.    A lot less happy with some health transitions that I’m going through, this is not a great time. The boot is you know temporary but it didn’t stop me from putting my foot in my mouth so that’s really good.    Sundae: *laughter*   Hayim: *laughter*   Hayim: But being diagnosed with autoimmune conditions, during COVID  was not a very cool thing. So trying to figure out how to manage my health because this pandemic will be manageable. But when you think about it there’s been like Zika, HIV, SARS, Avian flu, COVID. So this is part of the global world that we’re in today. So managing health issues and it was so hard for me before the vaccine came out. I felt like a hermit and the research on isolation and what it does to someone’s mental health, I felt very deeply. And I never want to go through that again. And I never want to forget what that felt like because as we were talking about earlier, a lot of people were isolated, before COVID for various reasons, and we have to them. So those are the transitions.    And I love being a grandfather and Sundae you’re supposed to say, “Oh my gosh, you look way too young to be a grandfather.” Come on, I’ll wait.    Sundae:  That would be ageist. I just think it’s kind of, yeah.    Hayim: I’ve been one for over six years now and that’s really it is so much fun and such a delight. And you want to talk about learning and listening and just being. So that those are some of the transitions.    Sundae: It’s beautiful. And when we think about your own transformation, do you feel a pull more towards something internal or is it the external, all of it, or even a goal like a performance led transformation that you’re feeling right now?    Hayim: No, I think most of my pulls have been internal. When I first started out as a congregational Rabbi, there were rules and structures and expectations. I mean, one really funny story, it’s funny now, is when my daughter was born, I started wearing pink shirts, and pink and purple ties, and a congregant came up and said, “What size Is your neck?” And I said, “Why?” He said, “Well just tell me.” So I  told him, he came back with a white shirt and handed it to me a week later and said, “You really shouldn’t wear pink publicly, it’s not befitting.” So of course, I bought more pink. That was my response.    but it was raining.    Sundae: Yes! I love it.   Hayim: It was constraining and by the time I got to my second iteration where we were like a start-up unit within a non-profit like, I felt, “Wow, this is really so much fun. I need to learn more about this,” and that’s when I went back to school and got a Ph.D. in organizational management and progressively, what matters now is; What is significant to me? What do I enjoy? What people do I enjoy working with? I don’t want to work with people who are negative. It’s not fun.   But, it’s like I don’t want to be a Pollyanna but where’s the gratitude? What can you be grateful for when you wake up every day? So all of this is internal, it’s what do I feel is most significant and also feels joyful to me?    Sundae: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that we have that in common. I use my podcast selfishly to talk about things that are meaningful to me and joyful for me and I hope that it brings joy and meaning for other people. So, based on all    Hayim: It does, I know. I just have to say, you know, I well, I do enjoy listening to your podcast. In fact, I thought, “Okay, I’ll listen to one or two,” I couldn’t stop. So, the laughter, the joy, the significance of meaning. I mean, your great model, and I just want to make sure I have a chance to thank you. And to say that publicly.    Sundae: Thank you, that means so much to me, especially from someone that I respect so much. So that does mean a lot. So tell me with all that you’ve already done and where you’re at in your life right now, how do you define ambitious for you?    Hayim: So “ambitious” for me will be, is a few things one while I’m working on this book furiously now, with my co-author, I’ve outlined another book that’s much more serious on what happens when someone who is a caretaker for a family member who’s chronically ill, suddenly is in need of medical help because in this case, I became chronically ill. So that inside-outside perspective. And I also started to collect some anecdotes. My life has been really funny. I think I’m one of the funniest people I know. There’s a decreasing number of people who agree with me.   Sundae: *laughter*   Hayim: But funny things have happened to me, along the way. And I want to write them down, it’s just true for me and my family. And I want to try to chronologically my life through humor which to me sparks creativity. So that’s ambitious. Outlining two books I’m working on.   Sundae: I did not expect that. That’s wonderful while you’re dealing with other things, that’s so wonderful. Oh my gosh, my face hurts from smiling right now. And I always think that’s a good sign. I’m one of those people who does think you’re authentically funny. So you can how you can add +1 to your list of people who think you’re funny.    Hayim: Thank you. And I just want to make clear to your audience. I have not paid you to say that. That was authentically coming from Sundae. No bribes involved. Just exchanges. You did.    Sundae: You’re gonna slip me some money to say that you don’t look like a grandfather. I think that’s gonna happened later.    Hayim: *laughter* This is so much fun.   Sundae: So obviously, people need to have more of you. So if they want more of you, your work and your humor, where can they find you?    Hayim: LinkedIn is really the place where I’m most active and I’ve got a Facebook page, very inactive Pinterest page because that’s like I’m learning I’m getting there. But I would say LinkedIn is a really good place to find me for more content. You can go to my website at HayimHerring.com H A Y I M H E R R I N G.com and those are the best two places.    Sundae: Perfect wonderful. I’ll make sure that’s on the show notes. This is just been lovely and I want to just sort of recap, some things that I’m taking away, I think it is this duality of the easy and the heart that we hold, right? It’s actually really easy what we have next to improve our quality of lives, to curb loneliness and isolation. But I understand the hard in there that we need to sort of deconstruct some of our own stereotypes. Maybe take risks and reach out to people in new ways. So that’s what I’m holding, both of those. And I hope that someone if this resonates with them when they’re listening, they’ll just take that next step in holding both. So thank you for being here. This has been wonderful. And thank you to all of you who are listening. This is IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I’ll leave you the words of Brene Brown, one of my favorite authors. It’s yep. Go ahead.    Hayim: Go ahead. I wanted to thank you again. He’s so sorry. I just want to say thank you. Definitely didn’t feel like work. And work and fun can live harmoniously together. So thank you.  Sundae: Yeah, thank you. So, I will leave you with the words of Brené  Brown: “We are hard-wired to connect with others. It’s what gives purpose and meaning to our lives and without it, there is suffering.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 288: The Intergenerational Garden with Rabbi Hayim Herring appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Studies show that ageism isn’t just socially, psychologically, and economically damaging, but it can also be harmful to your health. First proposed by Dr. Becca Levy, Stereotype Embodiment Theory hypothesizes that feeling “old” correlates with the toxic narratives we’re force-fed by society. Meaning, those aches and pains, slower gait, energy dips, and belief that your mind isn’t “as sharp as it used to be,” can stem not from fact, but from a self-fulfilling prophecy. We begin to mirror how we’re told we “should” feel at that age, even if it’s fabricated for division and profit.    Welcome to our very first Bean Pod. It’ll serve as the new formula going forward where I’ll group and release three threaded episodes in a row. Even cozier than before, you can now also watch the interviews on video. Then, I’ll follow each Bean Pod with a week for rest, reflection, and open discussion inside the IN TRANSIT Hub. Our first Bean Pod will feature three inspiring professionals disrupting norms and sharing facts that may not only extend your life but also deeply enhance its quality.  And this week, it’s my honor to have activist and author Ashton Applewhite us to discuss ageism. Many thought leaders have labeled Ashton’s book, This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism, a “must-read.” As an internationally recognized expert on ageism, Ashton’s work has been featured in TED Talks, at the United Nations, and in publications including Harper’s, the Guardian, and the New York Times. Today, Ashton shares macro and micro ways that we can recognize, confront, and dismantle ageism. (Spoiler Alert: NO, it’s not something that impacts just women and older people.) She also provides the nutritive narratives that should replace ageism. Listen to the Full Episode What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Ageism as a shared transition Gaining awareness of daily microaggressions The only two unavoidable negative aspects of aging Why age is seldom the reason people get along The U-Curve of Happiness Featured on the Show: This is the delicious stuff we talk about inside the Wisdom Fusion Project. Have you grabbed your FREE guide to experience the journey for yourself? Get decades of intergenerational wisdom at your fingertips right now. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Wisdom Fusion Project This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism Old School Anti-Ageism Clearinghouse Breaking the Age Code: How Your Beliefs About Aging Determine How Long and Well You Live by Becca Levy TED Talk: Let’s end ageism This Chair Rocks – Instagram This Chair Rocks – Twitter This Chair Rocks – YouTube Catch These Podcasts / Articles: We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle. Pro-Aging: Why the Best is Yet to Come with Ashton Applewhite.   We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 1:30 pm in New York, 7:30 pm in Johannesburg, and 12:30 am in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   If you know my work you know that I say that our lives are always in transit and in so many ways but there is one way that we all have in common and that is aging. And this week’s guest said so perfectly, “We are aging from the moment we are born. It’s not something annoying that elders do.” So this is from Ashton Applewhite and she is our guest today on IN TRANSIT. Welcome, Ashton.    Ashton: My pleasure Sundae, thanks for having me.    Sundae: So I’ll say a little bit more about those who are unfamiliar with Ashton’s work. Ashton Applewhite is the author of This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism and she is the co-founder of Old School Anti-Ageism Clearinghouse. She’s an internationally recognized expert on ageism, she speaks widely at venues, that have included TED Talks, the United Nations and she’s also appeared on We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle. She has written for Harper’s, the Guardian, the New York Times, and more, and is the voice of Yo, Is This Ageist? Ashton, needless to say, is a leading spokesperson for the emerging movement to raise awareness of ageism and to dismantle it.   So Ashton, I think it’s obvious from our quick pre-chat that I’ve been really looking forward to learning from you and hearing your perspectives today.    But I want to make a little confession when we start, I have this thing, when I would listen to your work about ageism, and the ways in which it limits us, I keep thinking about a wedding dance, where I am 86 and like, Salt-N-Pepa come on, like something from the 90s, right? And my spirit will want to get out there and pull out, you know the Roger Rabbit or all the 90s moves. But I am afraid that I am going to be this person who says, “No,” because of fear that people will think I’m out of my mind or that I’m crazy or they’ll think it’s cute or make fun of me. And I realized this, that that’s because I’m afraid of ageism. So–    Ashton: It’s because you live in an ageist society, these are fears we all have.  I will say in the context of dancing, I happen to not be a good dancer, but too love it. And if you are having fun to the music, the people see that and I think they will respond to it, especially at a wedding. But the fears that you talked about are very real and very universally shared. And there should be absolutely no shame. What you’ve done is the most important task already, which is twofold to look at your own attitudes and think about how you feel about age and aging because we have to do that interior work, as I’m sure you know, before we can take any kind of change out into the world.   But once we do that looking in ourselves immediately, we start to see it in the culture around us. It’s liberating. You understand that this is because of ageism, not because you are a bad dancer or a bad person or your friends are all jerks, right? These are enormous social and economic forces, sadly, that want us to be divided and afraid and out of sight for a bunch of reasons that differ, for each of us. Primarily because fear is commodified. It divides us and persuades us to buy things we don’t need. And I know behaviors that are not good for us. But I will say, for adults, there is no such thing as “age appropriate,” and I hope you play plenty of Salt-N-Pepa at that party.    Sundae: It’s like, “don’t spoil my joy.” The last thing you want to do, if I’m able to move, I don’t want my joy to be spoiled. So this is so big.   Ashton: You are joyful, people will see that. And they’re always going to be a few people, you know, snickering. But maybe they’re not the majority. Most people won’t care. And some people I mean I think about this because I do go to clubs where my partner and I are the oldest people by far and I hate being conspicuous because of my age, but it’s too fun not to stay home. And I know that for the few people who were going, “What are those old people doing there?” I know there are many more people going, “Hey, look at those older people. Maybe I can do that when I’m their age.” And most people just don’t care, right?    Sundae: That’s true.   Ashton: But it does take courage. I want to acknowledge that too.   Sundae: Yes, absolutely and bucking convention. So this is just a playful way to start talking about it but this is actually really serious.  You talk about how ageism casts a shadow over our entire lives. Can you say more about the scope of that?    Ashton: Sure, yeah, I have fresh fodder in that. I got a text this morning from, let’s see, she’s my partner’s ex-wife’s daughter. But we have a family Zoom, which has been one of the bonuses of the pandemic. One of the few. And she’s a terrific, very serious kid. She wants to be an educator. She’s a High School Junior. And she said, “Is what I experience, which is people telling me I’m cute or that I’m too young to know about a thing or being genuinely condescending and dismissive when I am talking about something that I know about, is that ageism?” And my answer is, “Yes. Yes. Yes.” it is. Ageism is any judgment on the basis of age. Anytime we make an assessment of what we think someone is capable of because of how old we think they are. Sometimes it’s called reverse ageism when it’s directed against young people, but it’s just ageism. We don’t need that extra label.  And that is why it casts a shadow across our entire lives. Although we live in a youth-obsessed culture in the west we are youth is commodified. So I will say that older people bear the brunt of it.    Sundae: Yep. Absolutely. And that was one of the findings. I should briefly about my Wisdom Fusion Project, one of the findings that I discovered was how we do think wisdom is held by the eldest among us. And you have said in another one of your podcasts that you’ve made a lot of old people that haven’t learned anything.    Ashton: I mean, a stereotype could be benevolent and still be a stereotype.    Sundae: Yep. Absolutely.    Ashton: It’s lumps people together in a group and I think that we definitely acquire experience with age. And if we learn from that experience as most of us do, it can turn into wisdom. I think if we could agree on what wisdom looks like and you drew a Venn diagram of all the people who are wise, there would be more older people in it than younger people because we’ve had, you’ve got more experiences under our belt. But to say that all older people are wise is no better than saying all older people are incompetent or more conservative because it’s a generalization, it’s a stereotype. Especially in view of the fact that the longer we live, the more different from one another we become. You’re nerdy so, I’ll put it the nerdy way. The defining characteristic of old age is heterogeneity. So all stereotypes are wrong and misguided, but especially to lump all people over any age into a little bucket.  Sundae: Yeah. And what I find fascinating is all of this media about Gen X and Gen Z and there’s like so much confidence in these articles about what this generation is doing it assumes, there’s heterogeneity homogeneity within the generation set, which is not true. And then, we think we know something about the older group, which is the farthest away, I find that fascinating.   Ashton: I’m on a complete terror to get people to try, literally to use the word generation less. I am a different generation from my child and from my parent that is a real meaning of generation, but there is no scientific consensus on what the term means. And there is no evidence whatsoever. How could anything be true of everyone in the world born in roughly the same time? But marketers love these labels. Politicians love these labels. Demographers love these labels. And they are convenient. They make us feel like we belong to something. But we overuse them and they are really problematic. Because the minute you hear, “Gen blank,” we all are all biased. We make it all sorts of associations with that given name of a group of people, born around the same time, and that closes our minds.    It fixes stereotypes in place, and it makes it much easier to pit generations against each other in the workplace. It’s so common. You know, those classic– one of this now out of date, it’s now going to be Gen Z but those Millennials, they’re so disloyal, they change jobs all the time. Guess what? I was born in 1952, when I was in my 20s and early 30s, I switched jobs all the time too. It’s a function of how old we are not when we were born. So generational labels really do a lot to divide people on the basis of age. And most importantly, they cover up the much more important role that class in particular and also gender and ethnicity play in shaping our experience. We live in such an age-segregated society, so few of us have friends and mix it up with people of all ages. That it’s really easy to think, “Oh, I like or don’t like that person because they’re my age.” Or, “We like the same things because they’re my age,” and, “That person is a jerk because they’re older.” Age is very seldom the actual reason for people to get along, or not get along.    Sundae: So why are we so fixed on it?    Ashton: Well, it’s super convenient. It’s really handy. It’s just habit. But then, one way to think about breaking it is instead of referring to the Boomers, the Millennials, the whatever, just say older people or younger people.    Sundae: Yep. Yeah.  Ashton: Because then you don’t get into this– It is problematic to label people, to lump people into age-groups anyway. The more older the group, the less accurate the label can be because of heterogeneity increasing with age, right? So if you just say, if you refer to older people in the office or in the band or and whatever, that gets you over the inaccurate. It’s much more accurate than attaching a generational label, which is never scientifically accurate. And it’s a way to do that without having the associations that we all have to a generational label click into place. And refer to an age group, say, “Age diverse.” Say, “X Age.” Lose the “Generation.” Try them for wean yourself off the habit of using generations for everything.    We do it because it’s convenient and it’s easy, and it’s catchy. But those are not good reasons.   Sundae: And we learned it, right? We consumed it when we were younger and we take it in. I think one of the reasons why your work struck me so deeply is as an interculturalist, my training is around the layers of our identity. Around class ethnicity, racial identity, nationality etc. And I think we just skimmed on the age thing, right? Okay I did my master’s degree in what 2004-2006 but I just feel like we just haven’t. Yeah, we’re not there yet   Ashton: It’s weird that we haven’t, but I take part because of all the people like you and your listeners who have become aware in recent decades of intersectionality, of the way these different aspects of our identity inform each other and shape our access to privilege, to voice divisibility. All those things. And when I say to people, you know, I ask; What are the characteristics for inclusion, diversity and inclusion? And often age is missing. When I say, “What about age?” Nobody says, “That’s a dumb idea.” They just want to get back to you. They like smack their foreheads and go, “Duh.”    So I think it is one of the many reasons I’m optimistic about what I do is that I think hitching age to the intersectional sled is a much smaller ask than it was to say women can run a Fortune 500 company as well as a man, 60 years ago. That was a bigger ask. Civil rights, is still a bigger ask because of anti-racist work because in the US of the horrible way it is embedded in our history. But we all know that it’s not right to discriminate against someone on the basis of anything about themselves that they cannot change. And we cannot change our age any more than we can change our ethnicity.  Sundae: Exactly. And that’s the one thing that we have in common is our age.   Ashton: We all age.    Sundae: Mmm. That’s so fascinating. And there’s something there about, you know, from if I get to nerd out a little bit with the intercultural perspective. When we are in polarization, and we’re exaggerating differences or focused on differences, one of the ways to pull out of that is to focus on our shared humanity, and age is an anchor for that shared humanity of something that we have.    Ashton: And I’m so happy to hear you say that because in my rainbow, unicorn, falling asleep at night dreams, I think of aging and ageism as a way – as a big tent, if you will, to bring people together to say, “We all experience this. Can we have that be a starting point for a conversation and bring in the other pieces of your identity.”    Ironically identity politics was coined by progressive Black feminists where the people who came up with the idea of intersectionality because they didn’t want to have to leave their Queerness behind or their Blackness behind or their femaleness behind. They wanted to be all of themselves and the one thread through all of this is, is the one universal human experience is growing older. The one form of prejudice we all experience is age and aging. I mean for White men, it is often the first form of prejudice that they encounter, it’s like, “hello welcome to our world.” But we can take advantage of that awareness to build an experience. To build on the experience of the awfulness of experiencing discrimination and seeing how wrong and unfair it is as a way to see. To glimpse for people that have the courage and the will, as a window into other more marginalized groups experience.   Sundae: So that the defenses aren’t high. So they can feel like, “Okay, this is where I can finally feel that embodied and now I’m ready to be open to others’ experiences.” I am also hopeful. Neither one of us are naive to the levity of this challenge, but it’s not–   Ashton: It’s a big ask.    Sundae: That’s right. So one of the things that really shook me about your work is the power of our mindset around aging and how it actually impacts our quality and maybe even length of life. Can you say more?    Ashton: I don’t think there’s any maybe about it. Yeah, ageism harms our health. Most of the work in this arena has been done by Becca Levy of Yale who just wrote released a fantastic book, called Breaking the Age Code. And she did the groundbreaking study, gosh, must be almost at least 15 years ago that shows that people with– she calls it, “More positive age beliefs.” I prefer to say because I’m nerdy, “Fact rather than fear-based attitudes.” Because positive aging makes it sounds like you sort of cherry pick the happy stuff and it’s really important to acknowledge the scary stuff too. But people with a less negative, ageist understanding of what aging actually involves live an average of seven and a half years longer, they walk faster, they heal quicker. My favorite study of Levy shows that they are less likely to develop Alzheimer’s,  even if they have the gene that predisposes them to the disease.    And I am in the middle right now of writing a blog post about how Levy has done most of the work but a big poll, the national poll on healthy aging which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association’s open network, they survey 2035 Americans aged 50 to 80, and they surveyed on what they call, “Everyday ageism,” which I don’t love that phrase. We don’t talk about everything racism or sexism. But microaggressions, the daily crap that each of us is subjected to in the form of greeting cards, anti-aging messages, all this stuff percolating around us in daily ways. And they ask questions about your overall physical health, overall mental health, chronic conditions and depression and the people who reported more experience with age, 93 percent of the people said, “Oh yeah, this happens all the time.” And all of them, the higher the levels of ageist microaggressions they encountered, the worst they fared on each one of those measures of health. Ageism harms our health.    Sundae: Wow!    Ashton: It’s more stress. We have to work much harder to buffer ourselves against the effects of living in an ageist culture and also because of – here some nerdy language for you; Stereotype Embodiment Theory, that’s likely to be staying for the fact that if you think everything’s going to go to hell, just because you get older, then when something is harder or your foot hurts or whatever you think, “Oh, that’s because I’m old. I shouldn’t do that because I’m old, older.”    Maybe you shouldn’t do it because it’s not smart. Maybe you shouldn’t do it because you’re out of shape. Maybe you shouldn’t do it because you’re too smart to do that. But it’s not because of age. But in an ageist culture, we think that’s the very type. We think, “oh, that’s not what old people do.” That’s the stereotype between our heads. So we don’t do it and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.   Sundae: Right? And we don’t do it so we also do not show other people that it is possible. Every time I see someone running at 75, I’m like, “Yep. It’s possible.” So keep your running regimen now and it doesn’t mean, it will happen for me or it can happen for everybody. But I know it’s possible.    Ashton: It doesn’t mean it’s possible for everybody and I have to be a little bit of a contrarian by pointing out that. These people are remarkable. They’re great. These amazing athletes that the skydivers but they are outliers. Really important to that if you don’t want to poll dance or run a marathon, you don’t need to, you don’t have to, and even more important, that message is very ablest. It holds up the idea that to age well, is to continue to move and look like younger versions of ourselves. And that’s not possible. It sets us up to fail and it is deeply classist too because that stuff costs money. It’s leisure.    So if you are a couch potato and you can afford to sit on the front porch and read romance novels, more power to you. There is no wrong way to age. And a lot of people don’t have the health, or the mobility, or the resources to run marathons and we should be careful not to judge them and not to hold everyone to this standard of exceptional physical achievement, which is also remarkable.   Sundae: Right. And that’s exactly what I love about your work is how at the same time, you’re able to shed light on what is dangerous when we look at these positive ideas of aging. Even the idea of aging well can be dangerous. And this is where I love how your work intersects with class and with ableism and all of those other things, there’s a level of complexity there.    Could you say more about happiness and aging? Because I think there’s some notions – It’s a hot topic.   Ashton: it makes me think of my mother-in-law, who since died. But she used to say because when I was profoundly skeptical about all of this, I entered this knowing nothing. If people watch my TED Talk I start out with a bunch of just facts about aging that I was totally bowled over by, one of which is the U-Curve of Happiness, and Google it. And Ruth used to say, “Not possible,” and I would say, “Well, I’m so glad you’re arguing with the best substantiated data I can call on,” which is that people are happiest at the beginnings and the ends of their lives.    And I thought well, that must be fine, if you’re rich. And must be fine, if you’re married. It must be fine, if you live in, you know, Switzerland. It obtains around the world independent of marital status and of health status. It is a function of the way aging itself affects the healthy brain. And it is also true that older people enjoy better mental health than the young or middle-aged. We have more equanimity. We are generally better at not sweating the small stuff. Stanford did a study on older people, I think it was very good timing. They started it coincidentally right at the beginning of the pandemic or something. Anyway, they piggyback on the in progress that showed that older people during the pandemic, despite being severely isolated and at far greater risk of death from COVID, came through it better with more equanimity and more resilience than younger people. Not because all older people are like saints or whatever, but it’s like having your heart broken, it’s awful. But if you’ve had your heart broken, you know that eventually you heal, and simply having a long longer view, helps resilience and equanimity, and perspective. And those help us get through hard times.    Sundae: Well, that’s so powerful. When I heard that, I’m 45, so I say I’m halfway to 90, and when I heard that, I’m like, “I’m at the bottom of the trough,” you know? I was so excited because I’m actually quite happy, right? So, it’s like this idea of potential of it even getting better, that really excited me.    Ashton: Well, one reason, perhaps that you are happy, is that you have looked at your fears of aging. To me, it is amazing that that curve that persists in a culture that barrages us with messages all day long of how it’s all going to suck and everything’s going to fall apart. Imagine what that curve will look like once we have raised awareness of ageism. So that’s the thing, the idea behind the fact-based attitude towards aging, the scary things are real. But there are only two unavoidable negative aspects of getting older: People you’ve known all your life are going to die. And some part of your body’s going to fall apart.   And those are awful things, they are terrible and no one wants to lose physical capacity, which is inevitable. Cognitive decline is not but it’s totally legit to be apprehensive about those things. But they affect each of us in a unique way. Some people adapt, you might. I mean I’m not an athlete. I hope I can walk around till the end but I wouldn’t suffer if my tennis serve which is non-existent, deteriorated. It would’nt be crushing to me, it would be crushing someone who plays tennis if you see what I mean. Or someone who’s hugely dependent on maintaining, I’m trying to look the way they did when they were younger. That’s a whole huge task for women to decouple. The idea that age and beauty cannot coexist, so the tasks are different for each of us.    Sundae: Yeah, and since following your work, I’ve noticed how many areas in my life, I’ve had ageist thoughts about others, about myself, right? And it seems so pervasive.   Ashton: All of this stuff is unconscious so you are marked on the hardest of all because it’s icky, if you’re like, “Oh crap. I’m part of the problem. I biased too.” But as I said, the next step of seeing it around you is really liberating and really powerful.    Sundae: Exactly. And that’s this is not the first time I’ve had to break up bias in my own self, right? Having been born and raised in the midwest, there were plenty of opportunities for me to have to undo bias. So, we can do our own individual work about undoing some of our own ageism. What are some things that we can do on a system level that can make an impact?    Ashton: Well, that first step is the only essential step but just by doing that, it’s the hardest part, it’s the most unpleasant, but when you do that work, you change. You stop saying ageist things. You might say, if a friend makes an ageist comment, you might gently call them out on it, and a very useful, all-purpose, reder to an ageist comment is simply, “What do you mean by that? Are you retired? What do you mean by that?”    So just by checking that impulse to rate the other people in the room by age. You carry that difference out even if that is all you do. And they ALL is in quotes there because that is the biggest, hardest task of all. Not everyone in the world can be an activist; the world would be intolerable if it were full of activists. But even if you think about the way you use the words, old and young. Do you use old to mean; insert negative thing. And young to mean sexy and attractive or “with it.” You can be those things at any age. So decouple the need to attribute the activity from age, right? That’s the work. And carry it out in the world in any way that makes sense to you.    I started – I had this bright idea that I had, needless to say, no idea how much work it would be, but I guess, gosh probably six or seven years ago I thought this movement is new. Imagine if the women’s movement had had a single repository for the best tools, the best books, the best workshops. So I created with two colleagues: The Old School Anti-Ageism Clearinghouse and the URL is oldschool.info. Everything in It is free except the books so noodle around there. And see, there are language guides, there are animations, there’s workshops. There is consciousness raising guides that we created because consciousness is the tool that catalyzed the women’s movement because women came together and had conversations like this one. And you realize that, “Oh, getting harassed, having my boss pat me on the butt, not having equal power in my marriage. That’s not just me. These are widely shared problems.”    Zooming out to the social and economic context and we can come together and do something about that. So our consciousness raising guides are free, them. Start a group, just read the questions, get together with a couple of friends and talk about it. And it’s called; Who? Me? Ageist? Because that’s where it starts, right? And we have; Ageist? Racist? Who, Me? Which is about the intersection of ageism and racism. And; Ageist? Sexist? Who, Me? So, look round. There’s tons of tools. Well, tons of stuff about language, all sorts of stuff.   Sundae: I’m so glad you did that. Okay, that’s great because as I said before, we started the call, my own process of looking at intergenerational learning, started with the Wisdom Fusion project, and then I looked to the research. And I didn’t find a lot. There’s like a few books out there that had prevalence but the others felt like they were just reifying stereotypes of what groups are like. So, I’m so grateful that you’ve done the hard work to put that together–   Ashton: A lot of times to this, I describe this in the introduction to my book, which you can for free on Amazon without paying for the book, is that I think a lot of people do what I did, which is it first we’re terrified of aging, icky, scary, awful, don’t want to think about it. We educate ourselves and go, ”Oh, it’s actually not so terrible as I thought and I can do all these things,” the pendulum swings to the positive aging side of things. “If I do these things, these activities, those scary things won’t happen to me,” and it needs to swing back to the middle. And also, if you were at the end where the pendulum swings to sort of this successful aging, positive aging thing, people make money off gym hips and supplements and hormone treatments and plastic surgery, and no one makes money off satisfaction.    So, there are enormous economic forces wanting you to be terrified of aging, wanting younger people to think that my 69-year-old face and body are disgusting. That’s where the money is. Fears is profitable. Fear pits us against each other. And only when we see those things, which takes a lot of work, can you move to the middle to see both sides of the story. But that’s what feels real. I mean, when I was at the hap, hap, happy end, I knew sort of queasily that I wasn’t addressing the whole picture. So life is like that, isn’t it?    Sundae: And I think that’s for me with midlife that I’ve learned like I felt this is kind of– this is where my project started was you know, reaching, 40, mid, 40, I kind of felt like when I was 20, the 40 year olds were lying to us.    Like why didn’t anybody say anything? You know? And I think it’s that pendulum right where I was only looking at one side and I wasn’t yet in the middle. It’s either this or that. I had to come to the middle and go; There are things that are amazing and there are things that are hard and both are true at the same time.    Ashton: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s why it’s so important for people of all ages to come together and talk about this stuff. I mean, I just think as, and I will say, I do see it somewhat through a gendered lens because women aging is harder for women because of the intersection of sexism and ageism. We’re punished for appearing to visibly age. And if more older women had younger friends, we would be more generous and more kind, I think because we would how hard it is to be young. It gets easier, believe it or not, even in an ageist and sexist culture. And if more younger women were friends with older women, who really like being the age we are and see how liberating and confidence inspiring and freeing it is, they wouldn’t spend– they would be less afraid. And it’s much harder to hold onto stereotypes, obviously, when you mix it up.    Sundae: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that just makes my heart like burst with joy when I think of that potential for community and that model that intergenerational community is not a new one, it’s a very old one that we’ve lost, obviously–   Ashton: And I think that we had in the olden days, we all lived in villages, with all people, all mixed up, not necessarily the world is now more ethnically mixed because of globalization, we’re in with more people who are not of our race or ethnicity but it’s way more age segregated.    Sundae: Absolutely. And in the research that I’ve read recently about aging, that has also had a negative impact on cultures and countries that traditionally have given honor to older of their society. That it’s actually that modernization has created more separation and harder outcomes for those who are older.   Ashton: And capitalism. You know, global capitalism because in capitalist culture, our value is linked to our conventional economic productivity and that is not a great measure of the worth and value and contribution of a person. And it’s especially punitive to children who don’t vote and don’t make money. To older people, right? To people with disabilities. To all the people who have higher barriers to participation in the global economy on favorable , on equitable .    Sundae: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we’ve talked so much about the topic and I think for those who are listening, they absolutely have to check out the book where you can get even deeper with this. But it makes me just curious about you. Do you mind if we shift our attention–   Ashton: And it’s fun to read.   Sundae: It is fun to read. Seriously, I read your book, I have an audiobook of yours and so, I was running in my area and laughing out loud. Imagine what that looked like, running and laughing, they might have thought, “What is she running from?”    Ashton: I figure people with manifesto against ageism which is, of course, what I want them to hear but then they go, “Oh my God, that’s gonna be a lot of fiber.” There’s a lot of fiber, but it’s not a heavy going. I promise.    Sundae: No, it’s so good. And for any level, not just age, but all the intersections that we’ve been talking about, it’s enlightening,    But I’m curious about you. Why are you doing this? How did you get started with all of this?    Ashton: There’s just no, meet-cute story, I’m afraid. I was in my mid 50s and I realized that I was really like this getting old thing, it was going to happen. It was happening to me, right? I wasn’t life’s going to get the only in the history of humanity. I mean that’s where ageism takes root, it’s just nutty that we go through life pretending that this thing that’s happening to us every day isn’t going to happen to me. And so being nerdy, I started digging into the subjects, like you, as you did and just doing it. I was self-employed so I didn’t get kicked out of a job or anything. But I just started looking into longevity and learning within a matter of months the facts that I started that TED Talk out with, ten years later that were just floating. I did not cherry pick my data. I did not pick the few studies that weren’t scary. These facts are so readily available.    And then I became obsessed with why so few people know these things. And the short answer is because if aging is made into a, you know, pathologized, these natural transitions, then we can be persuaded to buy things to quote, unquote, cure aging, which is not a disease. It’s living.    And if it is problematized, then we can be persuaded to buy things to stop it, fix it. And it’s not a problem. It’s just this amazing journey that each of us embarks on from the day we’re born, with lots of challenges. But also I think of myself as in the both sides of the story business, the challenges are real. But we never talk about the other side of the story, which are the countless ways in which it enriches us and this age bias makes it so much harder to do that and that is really soul-sucking. And it also divides us in ways that have disastrous larger political consequences.    Sundae: Absolutely. I love how you talked about, what we learn and what we gain. You couldn’t pay me to go back to high school or college. Like, I don’t want to go there because of all of the hard. That’s why they call it; Hard-Earned Wisdom. I don’t even want to be who I was then because I’ve paid for this wisdom with my experience.    Ashton: Yeah, it’s hard earned. People’s faces light up and they’re like, “Wait, that would be great… Oh wait.” Because I mean, I would love to swap out my 17-year-old ts because that’s the part of my body that’s falling apart, is my bones. But you don’t get to swap out just the bettered bits, you have to wipe the slate clean and we know, no matter how apprehensive we are, we know that we are the product of all those hard-earned experiences. It’s why I chose as the epigraph to my book, a quote by the writer Anne Lamott, and it’s an idea that I’ve heard from various people, which is that, “We contain all the ages we have ever been.” When you hear it, it is so intuitively obvious. And yet, we have this prevailing notion of age as loss and if we do lose things but we also gained a tremendous amount. So, let’s tell the full story.    Sundae: Hmm, absolutely. I love that quote, especially because it helps me when I engage with someone who feels different from me age-wise, it helps me connect there. What do we have in common? And where are we the same? I love that concept. I think that’s beautiful.    Let’s talk about you and I talk about Ambitious Transformation in Transition, I’m curious about you right now, what are some transitions that you’re feeling? Whether it’s a global transition that we have many to choose from, or maybe even a family transition or personal transition? What are your most burning transitions right now?    Ashton: Well, I would say, on the most surface level, we’re coming out of what a friend called “the main pandemic,” which I find a useful phrase. So I am starting to go out in the world and do fun stuff with other people in the room, which is, which is a nice and delicious privilege. I’m also starting to speak in public again so it’s like, “Oh, what this is like.” And having to rethink what I say and how I say it in view of this new world. I did a tremendous amount of thinking around ableism, which is discrimination and prejudice on the basis of physical or cognitive ability during the pandemic. Because a lot of what we think of as ageism is actually apprehension about physical or mental changes. And that’s not actually ageism. Plenty of young people are disabled, plenty of older people are not. So disentangling this stuff.   And so I would say the hardest work I’m doing is this. I also credit the pandemic for extra time to reflect. Not that I want to say the pandemic was anything but hideous horror but it did make me think about stuff. I emerged, literally I was in New York at the time where if you looked at a map in the like in April 2020, where the giant red bullseye everywhere was New York City and all you could hear is ambulances. But I emerged from that into the Black Lives Matter demonstrations in the streets. Literally, with a mask on, on my bike, which sort of kept people away from me and that was just amazingly powerful.    So, I have been trying hard to up my anti-racist game and to understand more clearly about how to be a better ally. Which mainly means shutting up and how to listen to people from – sounds cliche but to listen to Black people, Brown people, disabled people about what matters to them. And how down the line, how I can what they’re doing in the hopes that they will eventually help me understand how I can make my work more relevant to them. I think there’s this idea that if you are busy being anti-racist, who has time for ageism? And I don’t mean to say for a minute, I am a privileged White, cis, straight, White woman who enjoys enormous privilege, and it’s up to anyone to be concerned with whatever they’re concerned about. And obviously, being in particular Black in the US carries its own set of enormous risks and challenges, which I can sure understand being your highest priority.    But I think the overarching point is we don’t have to choose when we are being anti-ageist, when we are being anti-racist.   So if we can acknowledge that these two communities share experiences that would be valuable to each other and forces in the ways that make sense. Think about the potential for alliances, and to make a movement that really does represent us all. So that’s what I’m working on, is trying to make more friendships and alliances with people who don’t look like me. And, in the process, to work towards shaping a movement that is right now predominantly represented by privileged White women like me. What a coincidence and figure out how to help it represent more marginalized groups so that it is truly a movement that represents us all. It’s hard.   Sundae: That’s wonderful. Yeah. No kidding, it’s hard. But what are your options?    Ashton: The more I learn, the more I understand, the more I revise things I used to say that I don’t say anymore. So for curious people like you and me. I mean, if you had told me 15 years ago, I’d be fascinated by aging, I would have said, “Ew. Why do I want to think about something sad and achy?” And it’s anything but.    Sundae: Mmm, Yeah, now it’s so wonderful. Now I look forward to hearing what the next phase is for you. And it does give me hope on all fronts, on all of the levels of how it will impact our society. So thank you for the work that you’re doing. I know, I’ll put all the references in the show notes about your book, they’ve got to run out and get it. Is there anything special that you want to highlight that people should go out and check out if they want to know more about your work?    Ashton: Thank you for the question. Honestly, you know, aging is universal but it is also utterly unique, and the thing that matters the most to me, the wonky nerdy stuff is probably not the stuff that will engage most people. So that’s the purpose behind the Old School Anti-Ageism Clearinghouse is to just noodle around. If you’re a podcast listener, listen to the podcast. There’s all sorts of short zippy animations or you may searchable by topic, maybe you’re interested in language, maybe you’re interested in education. So I would say, go do some, gosh browsing, I guess I was saying window shopping but that’s not the right metaphor. Noodle around and see what fits your interests and your style of learning.    Sundae: Yeah, I love the bite-sized learning that you do on Instagram. You just have one little reframe about language and it’s like, “Oh got it. I’m going to change that,” and you move on. That’s really – I’ve been enjoying that.   Ashton: I am very active on social media. I don’t post pictures of my puppies, I don’t have puppies. Or my lunch, I do have lunch. I do really try to stick to agism for the most part. I’m active on Twitter. And I have a YouTube channel where I make these short videos, like the longest is 01:45, where I take some questions that come into my Yo, is this Ageist? blog, which is also something to look at. People send in questions, so there’s lots of bite-sized ways to get your feet wet. And something that is incredibly relevant or meaningful to you won’t interest the guy next door but he’ll find something that’s great.    Sundae: Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the show. It means the world to me. I’m a huge fan of your work and I see the power and potential of shifting people one step at a time. So appreciate your time today.    Ashton: Thank you for doing such an important part of the work yourself.  Sundae: Thank you so much. So thank you to everyone else who’s been listening. This is IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I will leave you with one of my favorite quotes from our guest today, Ashton Applewhite: “Aging isn’t a problem or a disease, aging is living.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 287: Dismantling Ageism with Ashton Applewhite with Ashton Applewhite appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Look around — and I don’t mean too far — and you’ll see what will inevitably be called, “The Great Short Circuit.” Everyone seems at their breaking point from two+ years of process overload. We’re trying to do too much with strained resources. And what happens to your computer when you have too many tabs open at the same time? Your operating system runs slower and less efficiently. (Or crashes altogether.) Similar to computers, humans are complex creatures. We overheat, freeze, glitch, and encounter incompatible applications or insufficient hardware. And, just like computers, the only way to improve is to upgrade our operating systems. I’m grateful to roar back with fresh energy after the Summer Moves, Summer Grooves series. Get ready to be amazed by indomitable guests and mind-bending content that I’ll have for you in the weeks and months ahead. Today, I’ll share the four steps you need to take to upgrade your operating system. , even top-of-the-line software programs experience post-installation bugs. So, I’ll also prepare you for common glitches, AND arm you with how to troubleshoot each error. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The power to send notifications Releasing the outdated version of you Recognizing what’s incompatible & insufficient How to avoid undermining your progress Patience with the learning curve Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Do you need to troubleshoot your transformation? Take my FUN, FAST & FREE quiz right here. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Sundae Bean – YouTube Trudi LeBron VIP Ambition Series – September Waiting List   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP84: The Bitter PTA President Journal of Computers and Human Behavior         We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript  (scroll widget)  Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 286: Upgrade Your Operating System appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

We all know someone who has become the bitter PTA President. At first they were giving their time joyfully, but through too much personal extension and not enough , they’ve become resentful. Whether in the PTA, at your job, at home, or with friends, if you’re feeling like you are doing a majority of the work ing others, but don’t feel ed yourself, it’s time to check that you haven’t developed BP TAP—Bitter PTA President syndrome! Today I’m discussing six signs that you’re on the road to becoming overextended, as well as strategies for how you can stop the pattern in its tracks. Make sure to visit my website to a free guide to today’s episode, where you can also sign up for my next free training, “Death to the term Trailing Spouse: How to go from Trailing Spouse to Trailblazing Spouse.” Sign up at: https://sundaebean.lpages.co/free-trainings-with-sundae-bean/ The post Summer Spotlight Nr 6: The Bitter Pta President appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

This scene is a staple in countless crime movies: Detectives in an office get collaborating over a complicated, weblike vision board of clues (which they add to as the case unfolds). They stare at this thing for months, even years, until finally, they have this eureka moment, “see it,” and solve the puzzle. That’s because when you write something down and put it in front of your nose, it materializes an abstract concept. The process transitions intangible ideas and moves them from the thought realm into the real world, greasing your abilities to then piece everything together. Side note: I’ve also noticed another thing seasoned detectives do well: TRUST THEIR INSTINCTS. Why? Because many times they’ll look back in hindsight and realize they followed their gut and made a great move. I’m celebrating my ninth business anniversary! Entrepreneurship was harder than I thought it would be, but also better than I expected. And this week, I’ll look back on key professional decisions I made along the way that helped get me to this proud moment. Specifically, I’ll share tips for how I manifested my endgame and took my goals (again and again) from vision to reality. Additionally, I’ll give you a succulent sneak peek into what’s happening behind the curtain as I undergo multiple transitions while taking sundaebean.com into its 10th year. I’ll also reveal more details about our highly-anticipated series, Summer Moves, Summer Grooves. In it, I’ll replay nine pivotal podcasts over nine weeks, each one honoring a different year I’ve been in business. So come celebrate with me! What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Gratitude for forced learning From multicultural to intercultural Embedding internal transformation in your endgame Importance of setting a predetermined timeframe Your vision = your life, your values, your context Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Need help finding clarity on your vision? Want a concrete plan that gets you to your endgame on your ? That’s exactly why I built the Ambition VIP Series. Prices increase by 20% as of September 1st. This is your LAST CHANCE to book and pay now to secure your spot at the current rates, so get on the waiting list right here. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub Coalition Coaches Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP160: Third Birthday Edition EP212: Fourth Birthday Edition         We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 4:00 am in New York, 10:00 am in Johannesburg, and 1:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   If you know me, you know I love birthdays! I am BIG on celebrating because to be honest, if you don’t celebrate, no one was gonna do it for you. And by the time this episode goes live, I will have blown out 9 candles in honor of my business birthday!    June 19, 2013, I walked away from a g ceremony for my business with a dream in my heart. And as I speak to you right now, I am honestly humbled to think of what I’ve been able to experience and build since then. If I’m really honest with you, it was a lot harder than I thought. I ain’t gonna lie. Really. But it was also better than I thought. In other anniversary episodes, I’ve shared my learnings and we’ll make sure that we’ve included some of those in the show notes for you.    But today, I want to share how I celebrate by walking you through a process and I hope that it will help you as you work toward your goal, the dream in your heart. And I’m gonna be really transparent, I’m going to share with you what I used to do and what I’ve started doing that really makes an impact. And man, before we dive in, I just want to say when you hold that goal in your heart or that dream in your heart, keep in there the fact that if you do the work, if you stay committed, if you stay creative, you too can be celebrating in 9 years. You too can be celebrating in 3 years, right? Sometimes when we have a dream in our heart, it feels safer to hold that dream there than actually try to make it happen. You got to put some skin in the game. And I just want to encourage you to take whatever you have in the ideal realm and get ready to bring it into the real world because if I can do it, you can do it.   So let me dive in, I want to share with you a little bit, sort of in honor of these 9 years. Can’t believe that when this goes live, I’ll be 9 years and a day, stepping into my 10th year. I think back to what got me started in my business, I started with The Endgame. And the endgame is what I also teach my coaches in the coalition to get clear on what is it that you want to be saying. What’s your endgame? And so this doesn’t feel overwhelming or does it feel like it has to be forever? Just pick a time frame.    So when I started my business, my endgame was about 12 to 18 months out. I think I wrote the endgame, oh, I don’t know, March 2012, and I knew by March 2013 we would be already in Burkina Faso or I think we were going to be just on our way there, clo Switzerland, moving there and then six months later, I would be into my time in Burkina Faso. So I picked like 12 to 18 months endgame. So what’s your time frame? What does a time frame that you’re looking at that’s meaningful for you? And for me, my endgame was to leave my corporate position well, get my website set up with my services clearly communicating who I was and have one of those cool opt-ins like a freebie that people could get to my newsletter.    That was my endgame. I wanted to have my legal ducks in a row and have some sort of brand identity, right? That seems simple, but to be honest, I did a lot of deep work to figure some of that out. And that was my endgame and once I reach that, I had to write a new endgame, and then a new endgame, and then a new endgame. And at one point, you start to think, “Do I need to change the endgame?” Instead of it just being bigger. “Do I need to shift direction?”     So one of the places that I think makes sense to start is actually the end. I got really clear 10 years ago actually before I started my business officially what my endgame was, but my endgame was focused on a period of time in the future. I didn’t say like, “When I retired.” It was more like, “Hey, when I have a business I feel proud of, that I would define as successful.” So, when you’re looking at a big goal, a dream, something you want to create, whether it is for your business, or it could be for family, it could be something for, I don’t know, your personal development, your spiritual development, a relationship, whatever that is. What is the thing that you could say, “Hey, if I get there, that’s exactly where I want to be.”? So that’s your endgame.    And for my business, I had to pick a time frame. So let’s say in the next three to five years, pick a time frame in the next three to five years, I want to be saying that. And then I had to fill in the blanks: “How do I want to be feeling? What do I want to experience? Who do I want to be serving? What do I want to be doing?”    I mentioned this, a little bit in our last episode about the importance of vision. And that vision has to come from you, not from the outside, you know that about me when I talk about ambition, ambitious has to be defined outside of external scope and scale, and defined by you because it’s you that has to make it happen. It is your life. It is your values. Your context.    Especially in business. A lot of people get wrapped up around this idea of six figures. I have clients who are like, “I don’t want a six figure business. I just want to make a couple grand every month so I can live a beach life.” Right? It really has to be defined by you. So:   What’s your endgame?  Pick the time frame, for me it was three to five years. And then answer it. What do you want to be saying that you’ve done? How do you feel? Who are you serving? And what have you experienced? And then write it out.   That strategy, naming your endgame has served me for years. But here’s the thing, my endgames were just getting more expansive. They were getting more international. The revenue was going higher. I was serving more people. I was also making contributions to communities that were underserved. So my endgame was like a balloon that was small and kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.    But at one point, I was like, “Hmm. Do I need to just keep adding air to this balloon or do I need to do something different.” And here’s what I want to share with you that I’ve learned. Oftentimes when we do the endgame exercise, and I’m not the only one who talks about the endgame, there are other people out there that talk about it. It is contextual. What I mean by that is it’s outside of your context of your current lived experience. So now I’m a big fan of the endgame still, but I encourage you to go a little deeper. To get a little truer to yourself. A little closer to your lived experience. And what I believe helps you do that is ATT: Where are you at? Your Ambitious Transformation in Transition. And if you do that first, it will impact the quality of your endgame.    So I’m going to walk you through ATT and give you a little bit of insight on my ATT and how that impacts my endgame. As an example for you to think about; How does it impact yours? Okay, so all I have is basically chicken scratches here on a piece of paper that I’m going to read to you when I did this process for myself. And this is a process that’s like an operating system that I constantly have going on in the back of my brain and it helps me, like a GPS, it helps me recalculate so that I can keep working towards what’s important to me, but not lose sight of what is.   Okay. So if I’m in ATT, where am I at? Before I revisit this endgame, here’s what that looks like for me. So if you know my work, you know ambitious transformation in transition, I always have you start from the end, start with what is IN TRANSIT? Transition first, because this is the water we’re swimming in. It is the context that is pushing and pulling on us that impacts everything. So:   Name T. Where are you IN TRANSIT? And for me, when I look at that, there is this global transition we’re going through; I’ve used the word “Weltschmerz” I don’t know how many times in the last few months. Weltschmerz is the pain of the world that you feel when we look at the mass shootings that happened in Texas and Buffalo. The war in Ukraine, it is hard to not feel weltschmerz right now. It obviously has a toll on our energy and our hearts. It puts everything we do into perspective and helps us reevaluate, “Where do I want my money to go? What causes do I want to speak up about?” Do you see how when we’re focusing on the bigger picture, it does impact our core values and where our priorities are.    So for me, I’ve been thinking about all of those topics, and they have been weighing on my heart. Other places that we’re IN TRANSIT, my family is literally in transit from South Africa to the US on the way to Switzerland for a new phase of our lives. Not only is that geographical transition happening, my husband is transitioning into a new job. One of my sons is transitioning from middle school to high school, if you want to call it that in German, transitions into a new school system, a new language context. I myself will be transitioning into a new language context. So those are things that are IN TRANSIT. Something also family-related, we’re going from being renters to homeowners and that means we’ve been renovating at a distance. There’s a level of responsibility that comes with that and the level of joy in stability that it brings, right? So all of those things when I look at IN TRANSIT, all of those are happening at the same time.    Have I mentioned that I’m in my mid-40s and my body is changing? Have I mentioned that my parents are in their 70s and my relationship with them is changing in of how many precious decades I have left with them? I have nephews that are growing, all of those things are in flux. So for you if you want to get to an endgame, go out wide and look at; Where is your life IN TRANSIT?    And then it helps us with the next phase: Transformation. with the work that I do, there are three types of transformation; Internal Transformation, External Transformation, and Performance Led. And it’s really important to just pause. Pause and listen. “Where am I feeling an internal transformation? Where am I feeling an external transformation? And where is there something performance led?” Pause and listen, because maybe there are quiet whispers that are important to pay attention to that should be in your endgame.    So, when I went through this exercise, I was surprised because if you know me, you would probably guess that transformation is high on the performance lead category. But actually, this time, not. There is an internal transformation going on that I can’t ignore and I’m pretty sure it’s connected to the last few years of COVID. But there is a calling I am feeling inside. Like many, I miss face-to-face. I miss face-to-face trainings. I miss being in an office with other people and sitting across from them and having a meeting, probably because of the nine years of having a location independent business. I miss traveling for work exploring new places, not just for vacation, but with an objective that has to be met. I miss peers, people who introduce new ideas to me I wasn’t seeking but I’m grateful that I gained. And I missed, this is something what I’ve discovered, I missed forced learning.    Let me explain. I studied Spanish at University, I studied communcation and rhetoric, I had no plans to learn German, Swiss German or French, but it was forced on me because of how my life context changed. I am so grateful that I learned that. There are skills I’ve learned along the way that had nothing to do with my choice, but were forced upon me to learn, and I’m so grateful. And those are the things that I’m feeling. I’m feeling this internal plug, as an interculturalist, I talked about intercultural competence development and maintenance and transitions that other people are going through. But because we’ve been relatively sheltered in South Africa because of the security situation, because of our life context, I’m hungry to dive into a new context. So I need to honor that. Those internal transformations need to be embedded in my endgame. I didn’t choose those. I didn’t, like, “select the box.” They were from the inside and I’m listening.    External transformation, you could say, is our move. That our destination was chosen. We did have some say in it, but there was some external and now we are adapting to a new context. Who are we going to be in that place 9 years down the road after 9 years of experience? We’ll find out.    And I’m also noticing in this time of transformation is something really interesting in my business. Years ago, I started out as sort of a solopreneur, I wanted to make a one-to-one impact, deep in people’s lives. And then I started listening to something else in my business around 2017, 2018, I wanted to make a greater impact, and that’s why I created a program, a digital program that could reach thousands, to make a bigger impact. And I realized that if I was the only one who could facilitate that, my impact is limited and that’s why I started the coalition, expanding my impact. I’m feeling the tug again about impact. I’m going to share more about that as things develop, but I’m feeling it. I’m feeling the impact of helping organizations go from multicultural to intercultural. I’m feeling the tug to have multigenerational organizations go to intergenerational organizations. I’m feeling the impact to help leaders make an impact in their organization.    These are not things I chose. These are things that are evolving that are coming, right? And they have to go in my endgame.    Now we went through transit, we go to transformation. Most people are thinking, “Sundae. You’re crazy. You’ve got so much going on. Is this possible? You really want to increase impact? You want to add complexity?” My answer is, “Yes.”    This is my definition of ambition. This is outside of external scope and scale. This is not the first time that I’ve done things that are, let’s say unexpected, and people didn’t understand. And in hindsight realize, wow, that was a really great move, right? I have done this before. I trust that inside of me. And it’s the same thing with my clients. I have clients who are working full-time. They have children. They have a relationship. They have binational families. They have outside committee responsibilities, and they come to me and say, “Hey, I also want to write a book.” Other people would say, “You’re crazy. That’s too ambitious.” But the question isn’t that. It’s about, how do we make it happen? What kind of needs to be in place? Where do you need to invest? How do you need to take care of yourself? How can you do things differently to make that happen?    That is Ambitious Transformation in Transition. Other people might have a wildly ambitious goal to just slow way down and do nothing. That would be even more ambitious goal for some people than taking on a leadership responsibility, for example. So, do you see where I’m getting here? When you go through ATT and you listen closely, it impacts your endgame. When we just do the endgame outside of our context, outside of our life transitions, outside of the inner transformation, external and performance led transformations we’re feeling, outside of our own definition of ambition, it’s just like a cognitive left brain exercise. Disconnected from all of the other rich nuances in your life. When you first look at where you’re ATT, it makes it much richer.    So I feel truly blessed when I have reached an endgame and I’m ready to write a new one. And at this point in my life, I’m so grateful that I am looking at where I’m at, and taking the richness of those answers and integrating it into what is next. I do look forward to this next phase. I do look forward to sharing next with you as it develops, as it unfolds. I’m not overwhelmed because I trust the process.  So, my invitation to you is to kind of get curious:  What is the time frame that you want to write an endgame for?  And then identify, in of that time frame, what is it that you want to be feeling saying doing and experiencing?    And if you want it to be really rich, look through ATT for you and then infuse those answers into your endgame. Thank you for experimenting with that. I can’t wait to hear what your results are. Please reach out to me in an email or in social media. And let me know what you took away. What you discovered about yourself. How it informed your endgame. I want to hear from you. I will share more with you as we go on.    And to keep the celebration going not just for my 9 years in business but for you, we’re going to do a special series called Summer Moves, Summer Grooves, and we will be having each week for the 9 years I’ve been in business, 9 weeks, 9 podcasts that we will spotlight that actually represent the easiest way you can make a big move in your own life. I, together with my team and my clients have hand-picked the 9 most impactful podcasts that we’ve noticed over the recent years that help my clients move forward on their endgame, in coming to with where they are ATT and working on their Ambitious Transformation in Transition. So, really excited for you, check it out on Instagram, on Facebook, to be part of Summer Moves, Summer Grooves.    I am going to be busy in the background really enjoying this vision that I have for the summer and making my summer moves to work toward the endgame, the new version of the endgame based on ATT. I’ll be back with fresh content after our summer moves series, and an update to you on how my moves went and announce a new format, and give you a sneak peek at some of the amazing guests that I’ve got lined up. I cannot wait!  So stay tuned for the series. Check it out on all the social media channels, Summer Moves, Summer Grooves. Let’s make the next 9 weeks unforgettable, in your own Ambitious Transformation in Transition.    You’ve been listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. I’ll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Jillian Michaels: “Transformation isn’t a future event. It’s a present-day activity.”    Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android).   The post 285: Go from Vision to Reality appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Would you agree? When reflecting on our world, I tend to reference a pre-pandemic and post-pandemic era divide. To some extent, every country is different now than before COVID. Experiences big and small feel smeared by it, and I for certain am deeply altered by the events of the past two+ years. And with travel back in full force, you may return “home” to a place that’s changed in a way you don’t like, and that can come as a total shock. Sure, where you lived during it also isn’t the same, but you witnessed the micro dose adjustments happen in real-time — making them easier to absorb. Okay, here’s another truth bomb: YOU’RE different too compared to when you left. And these (positive, negative, or neutral) changes are less noticeable via Zoom or over the phone but highly detectable when face-to-face. Fortunately, you can mind map transition to minimize the whiplash effect.    Right now, I’m undergoing multiple, life-altering personal and professional transitions. And although the process has been busy and at times challenging, I almost don’t dare to it that it has been…smooth.  And that is exactly what I promise is possible. Rather than just “getting through” the hard, you can actually feel in control and enjoy the ride. How? With the right foresight and strategies. So this week, I’ll reveal a few of my winning methods for thriving *while* in transit. They’ll include the globally tried-and-tested 4 Pillars from my signature program, Adapt and Succeed. I’ll also share some guiding questions I use to help my clients establish a clear vision. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Fun Fridays & 6-week sprints When it’s okay to bring your laptop to date night Living through layers & layers & layers of in transit Operating your business while on the move Working during low connection times Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: All private coaching slots are spoken for straight through to the end of August, but you CAN get on the waiting list right here. Prices increase by 20% as of September 1st; however, for a limited time, you can book and pay now to lock in your Ambition VIP Series spot at the current rates.  Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub Adapt and Succeed Susan Hyatt Trudi LeBron Brené Brown Amel Derragui September Waiting List   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP154: The Perfectionist Recovery Room       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 7:00 am in New York, 1:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 6:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   Our lives in transit – if you know my work, you know that I see transition differently – we are constantly in transition. It could be a global transition, a transition in your family, and a health transition all at the same time. And when we are in a physical transition, let’s say like I am, moving from one continent to the next, we add another layer on top of it all.    I have been sitting in layers and layers and layers of in transit for months now. There was this moment I had the other morning by my coffee machine, it’s 5:15, my eyes are barely open, I push the button on my coffee and I think, “Why isn’t this harder?” I felt like I was doing something wrong because we are moving continents, I’m also in other transitions where kids are graduating. We are renovating a house from a distance. I’m in some interesting transitions in my business and what I’m trying to create. And I’m like, “Shouldn’t I be more stressed out?”    Because whenever I talk to people like my clients about their transitions, they are in a harder space and then I felt like I was doing something wrong. Like, “What was I missing?” Is it something I had forgotten.    And then I realized, I’m like, “Oh,” it’s because I actually apply the things that I teach, right? Because of all of the visioning, all the advanced planning, all this systematic execution of the things that have to get done, things are going pretty well.    And don’t get me wrong – it’s intense. May was a really intense month. There were wedding anniversaries, birthdays, graduations, goodbye parties, sleepovers, and I think I made about 497 thousand pancakes. BUT I’ve had a lot of fun and June is also going to be a gorgeous month. I really do believe that if you’ve got the right foresight and strategies, these kind of crazy transitions aren’t something that you have to get through, but something you can actually enjoy.    So, in today’s episode I’m going to answer a listener’s question. She reached out and she said, “Sundae, how do you plan and execute your business while being on the move?”  And when I heard that question, I actually paused because I’ve been doing this for nine years. I have a location independent business and I’ve been on the move, whether it is 10-12 weeks away on different continents for summer to see our family and extended family. Or from a political surprise and suddenly we have abrupt transition leaving a country temporarily or permanently. Sometimes it’s for sad moments like a funeral abroad. Or for celebrations like a cherished family gathering. This is something that I don’t know, actually, how to do business otherwise. It’s just part of the conditions for me to be able to do my business, to be on the move, to deal with the unexpected and keep things going.    So today, I’m going to share a little bit behind the scenes of that so that I can maybe something on to you and see if there’s something you might want to add to your own practices.    One of the things I think people do when they think about moves, when they think about running their business, when they think about any of those who have complex physical transitions, is they think about planning first. I’m all about planning. But what I think we miss and I want to emphasize this now, is before you plan, you have to get clear on what you’re planning. And you’re not planning the move. You’re not planning the business. You have to know, “The what?” Bigger.    So what I’m talking about is the vision. The vision of whatever you’re planning. What do you want it to look like? What do you want it to feel like? How do you want to experience it? And then from there, you start planning.    So for me, if I go to the micro level, when I looked at this continental transition. Leaving South Africa after six years, setting up our nest in Switzerland, bringing a family that is much bigger than it was before in of age and development. Returning to a place that is completely different after COVID. And being different than I was when I left. I wanted to establish a vision.    So the thing I want you to think about for you is ask yourself, if we’re looking short-term, let’s say it’s getting through the next three months in your business or this intercontinental move or changing jobs, or maybe even a family transition, if someone is leaving the nest or maybe you’re renegotiating how you do your relationship, whatever it is. Think about the vision that you want to have.   What would that look like? The best possible outcome. How do you want to feel? What do you want to experience? What do you want to do?  And now we’re getting somewhere. So, how do I plan and execute my business around being on the move?    There are three questions I use to guide the process, and I teach this in more detail in my course Adapt & Succeed and I will share with you briefly today. In the broadest sense they are:  What is the vision? How do you want this to feel? What has to happen to make this vision come to reality?   That’s how I start:  Vision first. And I allow myself to imagine, what would be the best possible outcome?    Now, , it’s not, “How do I get this done? How do I achieve all of this?” It is really first by starting to ask, “What would be the best possible outcome.” I do this anytime I am planning. But when I sat and I did it this time, I had new things come to my vision. This time my children were much more centered in my vision.  This is definitely because we are moving them from one school system in one language into a totally different school system and the totally different language. So the stakes feel higher, and they’re at a developmental stage, where I feel like the type of will be different than what they needed in the past and I want to be present with them in fresh ways.    After thinking about how to be present for my children, I got focused on where I am personally in this transition. So again, what would be the best possible outcome and my kids came first. And then I started thinking about myself and what emerged is the best possible outcome FOR ME, was if to ensure first-class self-care during this whole process, right?   Now that might seem contradictory for many people in transition because many people throw self-care right out the window during intense transitions. But if you know my work, you know I say the opposite. This is the time to DOUBLE DOWN on self-care.  I know we have a lot behind us, my family and I have really been up to a lot in of transition. It’s taken a lot of energy. But we also have a lot ahead so that I can be fully present for this next phase, I know I have to ensure first class self-care, not just for me and my happiness, but for my family, and for my clients, for my business, all of that. So that I can take on whatever joyful or challenging projects that are on the way.    So those two things came out really clear in my vision. What would be the best possible outcome this time? Which sometimes it’s more in my business. And this time it was more in my family. And then I knew I would have to invest in time for myself so I could keep that first class self-care. That’s a huge place to start.   If you want to make the most of this exercise, you can also pick a time frame that is meaningful for you. For me, I picked June till the end of September. It also gives you boundaries around, “Okay, here’s the focus up until this time.” So there you go, pick a time that will be useful for you to focus your vision.    After I asked, “What is the best possible outcome?” I moved on to the next question: How do I want this experience to feel? Again, we’re not doing anything yet. We’re still in this process of imagining, right? How do I want this experience to feel? This really ensures that you can cherish the experience. And helps you check in and see if you are on track as you do the work to make this all happen.    So I teach this inside my on demand program, Adapt and Succeed so if you want to go a little bit deeper, I have got your back. What I am sharing is a taste of a deeper process that myself or my coaches from the coalition can lead you through. I will pop a link in the show notes if you want to check that out.    So there we go. We have looked in at the vision, the best possible outcome, how do I want this experience to feel. So vision and then how it feels. Now, you are ready for the third question, and that’s practical: What has to happen to make this vision come to reality? And of course, it is time for planning.    If you’re in the globally mobile community, you’re probably thinking about containers and packing and air freight, sea freight, carry-on luggage, temporary housing, right? These are the logistics. But do you see how that plan is going to look different now that I’ve done the vision and you’ve thought about how you want to feel during the experience?    This doesn’t even have to be for a major intercontinental move. It could be, how do you want to spend your summer? How do you want to transition jobs? How do you want to welcome a new family member? It doesn’t have to be only for an intercontinental move. This works for other transitions.    Honestly, most people make the mistake of jumping straight to planning. And I get it, you’re trying to reign in control over all of the logistics. But when you do that, you miss a huge piece of enjoying the experience. You’re not just “get through this” but create the best possible outcome.    Now is the time to plan in the big picture in your vision. Plan in your health. Plan in your family. Plan in your job. All of those things that will help you have that best possible outcome. When we started the planning phase, we took the vision and the feel ideas into the process. They were not “would be nice to have.” They were integrated into the process.    And very pragmatically we created a mind map. With time, it was a mind map online that we could share. So we knew where we were in the whole process. In time the mind map grew to look a little bit more like a spider web because it was super detailed. But we made sure the personal and professional was in there and then we divided up responsibilities and conquered that list step by step.   Another thing that we did along the way is we created regular meeting times to see if we were on track. And because level of intensity gets so big, we had to get creative about when we were doing those regular meetings. And one of the choices we had, we go out on date night on Thursdays and we could either have done a meeting or went on date night. It felt like we had to choose. But we’re like, “Oh, hell no, we are not going to stop date night because we’ve got too much to do.” So what we did and this is a little trick for those of you who are in a similar situation, we would bring – it sounds horrible, but we would bring our laptops to date night. But the fun part was, we would order a drink and then challenge ourselves to talk logistics and have it finished by the time, the drinks got to the table. So that is a way to keep the spirit alive. This idea of, “How do you want to feel? What do you want to experience?” That is a way to get creative.    And I always keep the 4 Pillars in mind. Again, this is part of everything that I teach, especially in Adapt and Succeed. The 4 Pillars are: Adapt as quickly and painlessly as possible. Expedite your success. Maintain connection at home in afar. Cherish the experience.    You can see how these four pillars are coming out, right? So: Adapt as quickly and painlessly as possible is around this detailed planning, personal and business. Expedite success is to make sure that we’ve got the roles divided and that’s clear. Maintain connection from those at home and afar is keeping date night. And those are afar is telling people where we’re going and where we’re going to visit about when we’ll be there, how we’re going to create time to connect etc. because it’s part of the vision. Then, cherish the experience.    And there was a moment where I was feeling the intensity and I was feeling tired with all of the planning and we were on our way to dinner with the family and I said to my partner I’m like, “I’m sorry to get all nerdy and interculturalist on you but let’s go back to the 4 Pillars. I think we need to elevate cherish the experience.” And he’s like, “Hey, let’s walk not the direct way to the restaurant but the long way and we’re going to catch this gorgeous sunset and these palm trees on the way.” It was a way to say, “Okay, you’re right. Let’s infuse more of the fourth pillar, cherish experience in our experience.”    So that is big picture. How to answer the question: How do you plan and execute your business around being in the move? Those 4 Pillars are central, the vision is central, the advanced planning and then dividing it, responsibilities, and then making sure that you’re executing on it that you got those regular meetings. Again, if you want more on this, let me know, send me a message and I can connect you to the material or the people that can you with it.   I do want to share, I’ll go a little bit more on the micro level, the detailed level, for those of you who are really seasoned global expats or are solopreneurs and you want to go even further than that. I’ll share a little bit about how I do it specifically.   So one of the things that was part of my vision was slowing down a bit to allow the fuller picture of my vision to take place, not just doing all of the things. And I think this is heavily influenced by the last two years of COVID, and what I’ve been learning about my own optimal level of creativity, optimal level of giving to others. And I think one of the first people that inspired me in this direction, was Susan Hyatt. She’s has been my business coach for many years and one of the things I learned in working with her is that she does “Fun Fridays.” So she works really focused from Monday through Thursday and then on Fridays, she only schedules fun. And Susan’s philosophy is, “The more fun you have, the more money you make.” And so she kind of introduce that idea to me sort of giving me business permission to add fun into my everyday, and knowing that it will actually benefit my business.    Trudi LeBron, I have mentioned her before, I worked with her for a year to help create more equity centered practices in my business. And she does six weeks sprints where they will focus in a program for six weeks. And then they will have one week for integration. She does that for her participants, but also for her team. So allowing more gaps so that you can process what’s going on and integrate what you’re learning or what you’re experiencing. And I wanted to take more of that into my life and my business, and you’ll be seeing more of that in the future. And I can’t wait to say more this fall.    And another person I noticed is also living this, Brené Brown just recently came out on LinkedIn and said her team will see you in September. They were taking a social media pause and they were going to use that time to sort of process, rejuvenate, and reflect on what’s ahead. I love seeing successful business owners show you that it’s possible to slow down and still do amazing work.   Amel Derragui from Tandem Nomads, she’s a dear friend and a business partner, right now she’s actually hosting a slow challenge which is really embodying this idea that you can make progress in your business and make space for your life. You don’t have to choose. It’s not one or the other, it can be both.    So, just a shout out to all of those business leaders for the modeling of that and that’s something that I deeply believe in. To be honest, it took me a while to come around. I am, as you know, a recovering perfectionist and I think I had an old model in my bones of the harder you work, the more you’ll create, right? And it took me years, thinking ahead to my nine years in business, it took me years to know it was safe to take breaks and to slow down and to give those gaps for integration. In fact, to be honest, it fast tracks your creativity, your business, and your success because it’s what we need as humans.    All right, so I’m going to give you now a little behind-the-scenes look at how I use that, how I integrated those philosophies, that idea, that interest in slowing down to create more space to integrate on the micro level. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you might want to steal some of these ideas. Or if you’re just traveling with your family, on your own to see your relatives, they’re going to be some things that apply.    So when we go down to the micro level, what I did, I always think of my clients first to make sure that I can honor the commitment that I have to them and serve them. If I’m changing time zones, that might impact how we work together over this time frame. So what the first thing I do is I go into my calendar and I block off when I’m changing time zones. I block off the times when I’ll be sleeping and when I’ll be working so that I know that I can serve them in a time zone that works for them. Nothing worse than scheduling an appointment, you realize it’s at 3:00 a.m. your time and you can’t tell them that you’re not gonna be able to make it so you have to get up at 3 a.m. No way am I going to have that happen. And it also don’t want to stress out my clients by making a last-minute shift.    So that was the first thing that I did, I scheduled ahead, I went in with my team and I said, “Hey, can you schedule out all the way through the end of August to make sure that everybody’s being served at the right time when they need it?” And then it allowed me to honor my vision of, “Do I have more space open? Can I take on more clients? Or is this enough?” And what we had to do is, “Okay. We’re done. We’re going to cap it for these three months because I’m full.” If I take on more clients, then I will not be able to live the vision that I created. This idea of me, stopping work at noon and taking my kids to the gym, and going boxing, and being out of the lake. I had to put a cap on it.    Of course, for those people that were sort of on the fence and trying to decide whether they want to work with me or not, I let them know that this was the time frame, so nobody had any surprises.    Speaking of which, if you do want to work together, let me know because we got a waiting list starting September onward.    So that’s what we did. We planned it out in my schedule. We looked at capacity and then we communicated to people what was feasible and what was not.    Another thing that’s probably pretty obvious is Wi-Fi. Wherever I go, I need Wi-Fi. So whether I’m in my aunt’s house, at an Airbnb, at my parents place, or in a transitional apartment. I need to know I have high quality Wi-Fi, so I can keep my commitments, as I discussed. One thing you might not do already that might be new, is when I am looking at my scheduling and what hours I do work, I have a reduced schedule during this vacation time in the US, I looked at when is the most sensible time to work. And I decided to work during what I call low connection times. Low connection times means low face-to-face connection times. And in my family, that means early morning because people are sleeping. They tend to wake up a little bit, mid-morning and stay up later. I’m an early bird so I’ll get up early and do half a day’s work before they’ve even had a cup of coffee or watched a cartoon.    So that’s what I do. Think about when are your low connection times at your face-to-face location. If you’re working in spaces where you want to reconnect with loved ones, then think about when is a time where you could work and not miss out on much. So, those are some things that I do. Ultimately, what you’re looking at is: “I need to work with my energy. I need to work with my vision. And I also need to say ‘no’ to some things to say “yes” to my vision.”   So that’s a little bit of behind-the-scenes. I truly, truly believe that if you are committed to your vision, you can be proactive in your planning and share your commitments, and communicate that to your team and the people that are involved. You really can have both, you can have it on your own . You don’t have to choose between, being only with your loved ones or doing your work. You can do both. If that’s important to you. And honestly, there’s a lot of pressure to have an uninterrupted portable business, for example. I also have to say, if you want to push pause and it’s your business and you can swing it financially, give yourself permission if that’s what you want. If you’re the type of person who says, “Hey, I want to amplify my business right now and intensify,” that’s also your prerogative. It has to just match your vision. Okay, listen to what you need and what your business needs now and then you can get creative to make it happen.    It also applies, if you’re not running a business, if you’re on summer break and you’re flying around to see your family, same thing applies: Vision, Advanced Planning, Boundaries, Get Creative.    What it really is about is, I want to dare you to say “yes” to you. I want to dare you to say “yes” to shaping how you experience your life in transit. I want to dare you to say “yes” to shaping your transformation based on your definition of ambition. Give yourself permission to do that. At least get started by playing around with some of the ideas that I have here for you.    And stay tuned for next week because I’m going to share more about what I have in store for you. I am celebrating 9 years of business come next week and I want to help you in helping you think about how can you make your right next move to get what you want based on what you need. So come me in the next episode to celebrate my ninth year of business. I’ve got some big goals coming up. I’m happy to share some of that with you. I’m actually entering into phase two of my own ATT, my Ambitious, Transformation, in Transition   And I’m going to announce a fun series I’ve created, just for you all summer long.  Thank you for being here. You’re listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I appreciate you being here and can’t wait to share more. I will leave you with the words of Thomas Edison: “Vision without execution is delusion.” Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 284: In Transit & Thriving appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

I’ve always strongly disavowed toxic versions of ambition. The human race was perpetually speeding in the fast lane when the pandemic forced us to collectively slow down. “Done” replaced “perfect.“ Go, go, go, became standing still. We slept in on weekends, championed carb-loading, and instead of tallying accomplishments and always asking “what’s next,” we curled up for much-needed soul rest. So is it any wonder that many of us can’t or won’t return to that frazzled pre-pandemic pace? Is it surprising that we reconfigured our definition of what’s energy-worthy and now, we flat-out refuse to reverse it?   This week, it’s my honor to welcome Salaam Green to help us unleash the healing power of writing. Salaam is a poet, master healer, creator of What Black Women Want You to Know, and founder of Literary Healing Arts, LLC.   With an uncanny ability to listen beneath the story, Salaam hears what you are NOT saying (and she’s so astonishingly accurate you’ll get shivers). Then, Salaam helps you reclaim your voice by creating your own poem, either through her guided writing or by producing it on your behalf.   As a prominent advocate for racial justice, Salaam has spoken at the United Nations, trained hundreds of leaders throughout the United States, and is a Community Village awardee.    Today, on top of sharing her expert healing wisdom, Salaam “cracks open” her heart to reveal her transitions, transformation, and future ambitions.  What You’ll Learn in this Episode: A train of handprints on the window Putting broken society back together Exhaustion, trauma, pain = everywhere The many different ways to listen Poetizing the story of your life Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Throughout this podcast, Salaam and I reference last year’s Wisdom Fusion Project — an eight-week intergenerational experience of women learning from women. The impact of it, on me and on the other participants, was truly transformational. And now, you can sample the journey – FOR FREE and at your own pace — in the new Wisdom Fusion Project Workbook.  Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub What Black Women Want You To Know Wisdom Fusion The Good Listening Project Dr. Martha Beck   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: Atlas of the Heart – Brene Brown         We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 7:00 am in New York, 1:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 6:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   Just as a caveat for this episode: This was recorded in two parts. The first and April 2022, and the second in May just days after a mass shooting occurred in Buffalo, New York at a local grocery store where ten innocent people’s lives were taken. This mass shooting was racially motivated and all of the victims were Black. This awful news that hit our airwaves has sent a ripple effect yet again throughout the globe on just how much racial healing we need and this episode now goes live in advance of Juneteenth reminding us of how important it is for the work to continue.   Sundae: So it is my heart felt pleasure to have Salaam Green on the podcast today. She is a Master Healer, creator of What Black Women Want You To Know and founder of Literary Healing Arts, LLC, where she s individuals, and organizations in using writing poetry, and storytelling to reclaim their voices and transform their lives. We have a lot in common on that respect. But what we do is so different and that’s why I’m so excited to have her here today. In her work as an advocate for racial justice, she’s spoken at the United Nations, and facilitated and trained hundreds of leaders throughout the south in the United States, including the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth and Reconciliation, and the UAB Institute of Arts in Medicine. In addition to all of that experience, she’s a certified practitioner and trainer for the Kellogg Foundation’s Truth, Racial Healing and Transformation process. A former Reimagining Justice and Women’s Policy Fellow and a Community Village awardee for Gender Justice work in the South. Salaam, it is my pleasure to have you us here on IN TRANSIT.    Salaam: Thank you for having me. It’s my pleasure to be here. I am super excited. Yes. Thank you.    Sundae: So Salaam and I know each other from our work together on Wisdom Fusion. For those of you who don’t know what Wisdom Fusion is, it’s an eight-week intergenerational experience of learning, and I can’t even find words for how amazing that was. But one of the things that I learned about Salaam during that is, she’s one of those people that, I don’t know, Salaam, if this resonates with you, but you seem to be one of those people that observes.   Salaam: Yes.   Sundae: And you might not say much but man when you did say something it was like *mic drop* Every. Single. Time. So it’s been wonderful. And one little fun fact that we have in common with each other is both of us went to, for at least some period of time, the University of North Dakota, right?    Salaam:  Exactly. What is that about? Absolutely. I am In the south of the United States, and yeah University of North Dakota, absolutely.    Sundae: Any woman who can put up with the level of cold and snow in the University of North Dakota is a resilient woman.    Salaam: *laughter* I agree. I agree.    Sundae: So thank you for ing us here, the podcast IN TRANSIT, I can’t think of a better way to describe how our global energy feels right now, right? What are you feeling right now in of what’s going on globally?    Salaam: Oh, that’s such a great question and I can go back to the Wisdom Fusion that we were a part of, there are no words to the beautiful way in which it was handled and just a beautiful people we met. I think in the world today community is what I’m feeling. I’m feeling like there is this hunger finally, for community. I don’t know if it’s because during the pandemic, we were isolated and we were told not to be in community and that’s trauma. And so, I see the collective trauma of what community – the lack of being in community has done for people. So I see that we are in transit right now. As you were saying so beautifully, moving back into the space of community, the communal healing. Bonfires are getting ready to be spread across the world. They are campfires. There are women in their kitchen, who are getting ready to open up the oven and baking our bread. We are really beginning, I think right now to look at circles or squares if we’re still online, but community, yes.    Sundae: I didn’t realize I was going to bring this up but I notice I have tears in my eyes when I think about it, this idea of community, there have been times where I’ve watched individuals in crisis, let’s say health crisis. There’s a diagnosis or a tragic loss and a family. And I’ve seen two things happen depending on the cultural context, depending on the energy that was going on in the moment, but one group of people isolate, actually go on their own. It’s almost like everybody goes in their own apartment by themselves and feels pain. And I’ve watched other people do the opposite. So come together in that circle, and be in community to share the pain. And on one hand, I absolutely I know we need to give everybody the space to grieve and work through their own process in a way that is unique to them. Absolutely. And I also think there’s wisdom in centuries of practices that we’ve seen, how do people heal best? When experiencing pain. And I hear you, we’ve been forced to be separate, but there’s been pain and trauma through the pandemic and all that we’ve seen in The US with this racial reckoning, that you can’t unsee through, thanks to the media, that has made it so hard to look away from, right?    Salaam: Absolutely.    Sundae: So where do we go from here? I know this is at the center of your work right now. Why are you using your precious energy and attention to focus on racial healing right now?   Salaam: Because I cannot look away. I cannot look away as a Black woman who lives in the south in Birmingham, Alabama, the center of all things civil rights. Also from areas, such as Selma, Alabama, where I grew up going across the Edmund Pettus bridge and I grew up with the whole pedagogy around civil rights and civil rights leaders. I the first time my mother took me and my brothers to a protest. There was – and I know sounds like a great field trip, right? We’re going to a protest, but even as a little girl, maybe six or seven years old at a protest, it did something to me then. I wondered two things: Why were the people protesting? And why were the people behind the doors, who wouldn’t let certain people inside of the doors locking people out?  And it’s so important for me now to say, “How do we connect the people behind the doors and the people who are on the sidewalks?” We both are wounded. We both need healing. I only believe, for me, the way that that healing will occur is if we are in relationship with one another. It’s called ing. So ing is when we put our back together, ing, the membering part is where we put the of society back together. The of ourselves back together. So that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing now. I cannot not see it, but I cannot not feel it, Sundae. I feel it. I feel it in the friendships I have with people who look different than me. I feel it in the friendships with people who look like me; exhaustion, trauma, pain, on both ends. So, yes, it’s time.    Sundae: I know that you are what you call a literary healer that you use writing to heal. How do you do that? And how is that connected to racial healing?    Salaam: Yes. I started doing writing to heal four or five years ago. I went through a really devastating divorce and clinical depression, and I lost everything, my home, my family, all of it. Goodbye, gone. Wiped away. Yes. And I found myself on this lady’s red couch, it was a writing class and I began to write myself back together again. And I hadn’t written, I was 33-34, hadn’t written in my entire life and my background, first degree was in English and always wanted to be a writer. But as I was writing with other women, I began to find and reclaim my voice. I began to reclaim my voice in relation to the voices of others who are reclaiming their voices as well. There was no hierarchy.   So, the way that I do it, it’s through the model of the way that I’ve healed. As I come in, I give people writing prompts based on where they are in their lives. So if I’m in transition for work, or if I’m in transition for relationship or in transition for racial healing or in transition for, whatever, I give people simple writing prompts. Such as, “Okay. It’s a new year. What do you want to keep from last year?” I know everyone’s saying, “Let go, let go, let go, let go, so I’m assuming that you’re probably going to be letting go of something. But what do you want to keep?” And I ask you to write for 7 minutes from your heart. Not your head. Whatever comes up, allow it to come out. “What do you want to keep?” And then after that, I sit with you and I ask if you would like to share the things you want to keep and why those things are important to you. And also the feelings are the emotions that came up.    So for me, my work is all about the expression of emotions and reclaiming that no matter where we are in the world and what we are doing, it is an emotional experience. For me, racial healing is a emotional experience. It is a globally emotional experience. People have been hurt. People are excited about reckoning. People are joyful about finding joy in those spaces. People are traumatized and there’s a collective trauma, which causes so much pain. So as we recognize and become emotionally aware, we can become race aware. We can become love aware as well.   Sundae: Gosh, there’s so many layers to that. One thing I’m hearing is you’re giving people space to have honest conversations with themselves.   Salaam: Yes. Hmm.   Sundae: And then I’m hearing you’re also giving them a safe sort of cocoon where externalize it, share it. And I think it’s always when you say it out loud, you embody it in a different way, right? When you share it in community with other people.    Salaam: Yes.  Sundae: And the other thing, that’s one of the things I love about Brené Brown’s work, she talks about the Atlas of the Heart and it’s a literal encyclopedia of emotions, and she talks about what the function is for us. And I think in at least very westernized, industrialized cultures, the emotions are not given legitimacy like other very pragmatic things. Right?    Salaam: Right. Hmm.    Sundae: And you’re centering the emotional experience here.    Salaam: Absolutely. It is centering your emotional experience. That is important, that is valuable, but also in a community with others, you are seeing what it’s like to have others emotional experiences centered as well. So be it becomes less scary It becomes more connected and then you relate. It’s like, “Oh, of course, Sundae went through something as well. And she feels pain too. You mean Sundae cries. Oh my goodness. I thought she was just all day long, this power-driven, high-achieving woman who never cried, or anything,” that kind of thing. So, it’s sort of like when you see your teacher in the grocery store and you realize she’s a human being too, who buys apples and meat for dinner. We are all human with all these same emotions. We’re all in a grocery store after work. in the grocery store getting ready to take care of ourselves and our families. Yes.    Sundae: Totally our shared humanity.    Salaam: Our shared humanity, and really defining that word of what “shared” means, because we can look at words now, there’s so many so much lingo and so much language, and so we get caught up in that language. But if we really realized that “shared” means, share. Like, I have something and I am going to give it to you and you will receive it. Sharing is the gifting and the receiving of something. There’s a need, I feel the need and you receive it and you say, “Thank you.” Not, “Oh, I don’t really deserve this. Why’d you give this? How much is it? It’s not enough.”  It’s the receiving. It’s the sharing. Its the pouring of the water in the cup and we’re all drinking, because we are thirsty. And then we are quenched together. It’s the shared quenching that brings us I think into relationship.   Sundae: Absolutely, and that speaks to so much about this isolation that everybody’s been feeling how that’s more important than ever to have that. So what are you noticing in the racial healing circles that you’ve been leading? What do you notice is happening?    Salaam: It’s not easy, Sundae. It’s a challenge, really. It’s been such a challenge as anyone could imagine. But what I am noticing, what is happening, is I noticed that people are really struggling or are challenged with centering other people’s experiences other than their own. I am noticing that is a huge struggle. My experience as a Black woman in the south is my experience. And as I share that experience, I hope that others are able to see that, it’s not the only experience, but it’s the experience that shapes me, which is going to help shape the work that I do to you in your healing. So when I look at the spaces of, how do we not center anyone in these spaces, or we center the Black experience, or we center the global experience, I am finding that there’s challenges with that.    And I’m also finding that sometimes when their challenges with that people are like, “Well, let’s not do it. No. No, I’m uncomfortable.” Trigger, trigger, trauma, trauma, trauma, “You’re causing me pain.” Whereas for me, what I am seeing is a call for me to go deeper, to take a deeper dive into what that is to. Look at it from a standpoint of, “Oh, I want to not shame or guilt anyone,” we’re no longer shaming or guilting anyone into having a racial reckoning or having any kind of reckoning. What I would like to do and what I’m saying is happening is by witnessing what that power or loss of power actually feels like. What does it do in your body when you feel that? What does it mean? We all have had that, even not on a racial standpoint.   So taking a witness and really saying, “Yeah, let’s deeply listen.” But I really want to go to the space of witnessing now. And so for me, my work is now witnessing and what I’m seeing in this space is the more that I witness, it strengthens people’s resolve to look a little deeper inside and say, “Oh, it’s not the content you’re sharing, it’s the experience I’m having with my loss of being centered.”    Sundae: That’s interesting. So my cognitive brain is going bananas over here because when I hear that, I’m thinking about all the dynamics around awakening, around Whiteness, right? How do you handle that in your groups?    Salaam: My groups are inclusive right now. I do have separate groups where I do you work with Black women and I do work internationally with global spaces, but right now, the heavy work that I’m doing is with all races, all genders, all nations. And when I see those challenges that come up, of course we have guiding principles and touchstones and all those wonderful things. But truly how I handle that work is I ask people to be responsible for it for themselves. When you actually feel it coming up yourself, I ask you to call that out, call yourself into the circle yourself.   So I ask you to lean into the community. What do you need from the community? Where were you triggered? Where were you bruised? Where was the hurt? Where was the confusion? And then I ask someone in the community; How can we our sister? How can we our brother?   It’s communal and community healing going back to what we have always been, going back to that attachment in early childhood, going back and into the spaces of ancient storytelling and ancient healing practices. This is it. What I truly believe.    Sundae: Wow, yeah, that’s huge work. It’s definitely huge work. So much respect for you to create that container and hold that space. That’s massive. It’s really massive. So tell me more about what is it about reclaiming your voice right now and healing, what is the connection? Because I know that’s so centered in your work, you talk ing poetry, using writing. I have been honored to witness you use your voice in poetry and move people. So tell me what it is about that piece that connects, using your voice in healing.    Salaam: Absolutely. I think the first time that I realized I was a poet, once again, goes back to the story of being on this lady’s red couch, after going through a traumatic time in my life and I wrote something and then some other beautiful woman said, “You are a poet.” And I’m thinking, “Who wants to be a poet. What is that? How much fun? Yay.” And I never knew that. And so sitting there as someone is watching me with my words and as I put those words together in that moment, reclaiming the poet that lives inside of me, the voice that I am giving out to the world is the voice of poetry. That’s what people are hearing, and it’s resonating with them. So to me, the work that I do and the whole idea of reclaiming your voice comes from the fact that, of course, no one can help you find your voice. You didn’t lose it. You have your voice, we all have our voices. But it’s the fact of that throughout my life, I was never given the opportunity or felt the permission to use that poet’s voice. I didn’t know that it was an inclusive voice that could possibly heal the world.   Sundae: One of the things I’ve learned is how when you have no words, when there’s no way to take away the pain, people go to prayer, they go to poetry, they go to art. Because nothing else can get close to what they’re experiencing.    Salaam: Exactly. Mmm. It is the space where we are connected the most, art, poetry, our spiritual practices, prayer. There is no divide in those spaces. It is bear is where we break barriers and part of reclaiming a voice, my voice was actually reclaiming my power and having to become power aware, that I am a powerful woman.    Sundae: Hmm.    Salaam: When I have been told throughout my life that I wasn’t. When I’ve gone through trauma that can make you sometimes feel weak. When I have been in situations where there has been this collective suffering but there’s also been collective joy. And as I tap into the voice of all of those people and all of those places that I’ve been and gone through that’s reclaiming like, “This is mine!” No one else. No one else has this voice. No one else has this poetry. No one else has this narrative. No one else has the ability to people through their voices and racial healing. That is it. This is who I am. And as I reclaim it, I’m able to now look in the eyes of others and say, “Hmm, come sit on this red couch. There’s some poetry inside of you. There is some coaching inside of you. There’s some consulting. There is a voice inside of you, that is your intuitive voice.” Yes.    Sundae: So Salaam, something I want to ask you, you helped bring out people’s voice, people’s intuitive voice through writing but not everybody is as talented of a poet as you are. And you and I have talked outside of this context about how I feel poetry is so healing when you’re in crisis, or you’re going through hard times. So there’s something that I’ve noticed that you’re doing with other people which is listening to their stories and then creating poetry for them. I think that is such a gorgeous gift and I would love to hear from you, how did you come to that idea? How did this all start?    Salaam: Oh, yes. So I think the whole idea of listening beneath the stories of what people are saying is where I really started. Of course, been expressive writing and doing that for the longest, but during the early part of the pandemic, I found this place called The Good Listening Project and The Good Listening Project has a certified listener poet program. And so I jumped in not knowing at all really what it was. But I noticed that it really was what I had been doing for so long and other people have been doing through storytelling, and I really wanted to see a way to really bring it back into the spaces with people who I have an opportunity every day to listen to. And for me, it was just a natural fit. It’s kind of like the whole idea of Sarah Bono, “Going beneath the voices of what people are saying and really finding out what their initial needs are.”    And so as a result of going through this program for six weeks becoming a certified listening poet, I was able to bring it back into the hospital where I work as an artist and resident and where I was able to work now with probably over 50 doctors and healthcare professionals, really looking at ways that we can reduce burnout, advance resilience, and sit with one another and began to unearth those stories. Not just post-pandemic or pre-pandemic but just stories about where we are as people. So it has been an enlightening, illuminating, sad, happy, joyous but more than anything, I don’t think I would have been able to be this close to the heart of people if there wasn’t the whole idea of using poetry as a tool to kind of get in there. To enhance people’s imagination to really them and saying, “Your voice matters.”    But not only that but your voice is healing. You can use your voice to heal your life. Tell your story. Here is a poem, it’s your poem. Not me. I heard this. This is really creating your poem when you’re with me. I’m just putting it in a little form and giving it a little rhythm, giving in a little rhyme, but it’s really you, it’s who you are. So it has been and it continues to be a highlight what I do everyday, but also it I think it’s also very healing for people to get the to get a poem but also to be listened to.   Salaam: I’m tearing up just listening to you about this. There’s a lot of reasons why. I think the first one is, I mentioned before, there’s so much our work we do very differently, but I think there is an intention of transformation behind both of our work. That’s it might be similar. And as a coach, what I’ve witnessed in over a decade of doing this is how important it is to just have what I learned from my mentor, Dr. Martha Beck calls A Comionate Witness, and just listening. And that’s something that I also teach my coaches who don’t have let’s say a coaching qualification but are there more as a facilitator. Like, “Hey, just being present as another human in saying I hear you and I have no agenda,” that is so powerful for people. So that I would just want to acknowledge how meaningful that must be for the people who are working in the medical field because I do have clients that are doctors, and I know they have zero time. They have zero time to process. You’re such a gift for them. The other thing that’s coming up for me, is you’re like a conduit. It’s like the poem es through you to them.    Salaam: Yes.    Sundae: And I just feel like it’s such a beautiful thing that you’re doing because right now, we don’t have more strategies. All of the old ones are used up and they’re not working anymore.    Salaam: They’re not. No, they’re not.    Sundae  And we need something different.    Salaam: Thank you. And one of the chaplains that I work with, he’s been a chaplain for 30 years. Before a chaplain, of course, a minister and I asked him, during the pandemic and during the time where chaplains were not able to go into patients’ rooms, he mentioned that they did phone calls. He logged over, I think he said close to maybe close to 18,000 phone calls, his team did with people. But the whole idea of being the head chaplain in the hospital, motivating a team, maneuvering entire team and cross religion, cross spirituality, cross all those barriers but not being able to go and side of the rooms of patients. So I asked him, “What was that like?” And I him telling me that he just one day put his hand on the window of a patient’s room. Just put his hand on a window of a patient’s room to just signify or signal, “I am here.”    And as he did that he began to see that there were nurses who began to do the same thing. There were health care technicians that began to do the same thing. And it became almost as if there were just the train of hands on windows at this particular unit. And the people who were behind those rooms were able, when they weren’t able to actually sit alongside someone, they were able to feel and see those hands of the people putting their love, their prayers, their spiritual resilience, all of those things to say, “We are still here, but we also see you are still here.”   Sundae: Yeah.    Salaam: There’s so many different ways to listen. So I will ask all of us; if we could just have anyone to lay hands on the window that we’re behind, whatever room that we are behind, whose hands would you want on your window? And whose window would you put your hands on? That’s the poem. That’s the poetry. That’s the listening. That’s what we are. I believe right now globally.   Sundae: That’s the kind of strategy, right? And I’m saying that was like air quotes, that we need to do it differently and it’s so simple and so powerful.    Salaam: Yes. It’s beyond. It’s beyond powerful because of course, we know the strategies that we know and like you’re saying, we have the theory, we have the dogma, we have the pragma, we have for the practitioner, thesis. We have all of the pedagogy, we have all of those things. But what I think people are asking us to do now is for hearts to break and so that now hearts can now be reopened to something different and new, to different and new people into different and diverse ways of seeing one another, the diversity of listening and the diversity of how I need to be heard, as well. Sundae: Totally. That goes back to your healing circles to how you shared with me, how for some people it’s really uncomfortable to have their voice not be centered. And for others, it’s so unique to just be witnessed. To be in community with people in very different, very vulnerable ways. We’re not going to get through this without some pain. Cracking your heart open. Cracking your heart open, it isn’t something, maybe I’m wrong. I don’t think it’s something soft. I think it’s something hot and painful.   Salaam: And it requires someone– a witness. That the hot painful way of opening ourselves that is going to take us into the softness as we go through that tunnel. It is dark. So we might need a witness, we need someone to travel alongside of us, where two or more gathered together, we have a witness. And as listeners, we can decide to witness, we can decide to, “We are gathered here together in witness of one another.” As your heart breaks, your heart is not working alone. As joy began to filter this room. It is not filtering in alone. As we see someone who may have a hard time kind of cracking the door of that resilience or cracking the door of, you know difference. You are not doing it alone. So for me, the listening is more witnessing someone else.    Like, “I hear you. But I hear and see you and I’m with you.” The witness that we have together in this space is really what gives me the opportunity to really bring the emotional barrier, to break the emotional barriers through poetry. To break the dive the different barriers through poetry. To break whatever barriers they make their maybe through a poem, lines of words on a piece of paper that are broken up literally. That set the barriers apart, that have barges on each side, that keep us in a boundary.  That allows me to be able to see you. So I think that’s what I hope I can teach others to do. And really, the vision is absolutely. Yeah.    Sundae: Well, you’ve transformed the way that I see poetry.   And then as I’ve grown and been challenged, the words in their regular structure don’t do it and you seek something else and that is where I found poetry. And I’m so grateful for poets because they do heal in ways that tangible doctors don’t heal, psychologists don’t heal. It’s a totally embodied different way of healing, and I wish and this is my side agenda, I really wish that the arts were better funded because this is a new technology. It’s a very old technology but for new purposes that we need so urgently right now.   Sundae: So I’m gonna put you on the spot, but I’m wondering if you have a poem that you know by heart that you love reciting or something you’ve written that you’d feel comfortable with sharing.    Is there anything that’s coming to mind for you?    Salaam: I think I do have one poem. During the entire pandemic, I have been focused on this whole idea in my healing and I think this was mentioned, the whole idea of the whole person, the whole idea of the whole person. I went through trauma as well during the pandemic where it was kind of trauma of almost losing my life and this kind of thing. And I realized I needed a community that saw the whole me. Not just, “Oh, she needs housing. No, she needs financing. Oh, no, it’s counseling, it’s housing, it’s financing, it’s food, it’s clothes. It’s a hug, it’s a bath, grooming for my dog,” the whole person. Rest, sleep, a part-time job, all those kinds of things. So I have this point that came from me through those experiences, it’s:   I am tending the roots of my pain.  I am uprooting the wounds of my shame.  I am reclaiming the power of my name.  I am set free from every one of my chains.  I am reclaiming the power of my name.  And in so many seasons of my life, I’ve had to reclaim and I’ve had to set free all of my chains.   Sundae: Wow.    Salaam: Thank you for listening. But that short little poem has been my solace for this time.    Sundae: Well, and you just sort of casually mentioned that you almost lost your life, as if that’s just a thing.    Salaam: No. It’s not a thing.    Sundae: How do you move forward from that? How do you have that encounter and then find words for that? Only something like poetry can come close to finding something sacred enough to represent it.    Salaam: Absolutely, it’s not a casual thing, like you’re saying that I have experienced, but poetry visits me in all of my trauma. And as it visits me, it reminds me that there’s this continuous process of reclaiming my voice and reckoning with that pain and restoring that joy, and being as honest and vulnerable so that others too can. I truly believe that this global world changing thing that we all hope to do in life comes from the stories of how we have reclaimed ourselves in the most painful things that we’ve gone through.   Sundae: That’s beautiful. That’s like such a guide, I think for this year is; How can we reclaim ourselves, our voices? And sort of like an alchemist transformed the pain that we’ve experienced into something that would be wisdom at best or at minimum, and strength at best. I don’t know the quote but that idea is coming out to me about that wisdom is just the result of pain healed.    Salaam: Hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Sundae: So tell us a little bit about where you are in service of other people right now? And you’re doing this work in community with others, for racial healing. But what about you, what transitions are you feeling right now?    Salaam: Whoo, the biggest transition I am feeling right now, is ease and rest. E A S E. I want everything to be ease, ease, ease in my life. And even the fact that people may judge me because I say I want things to be ease, that’s ease. It’s like, “So what?” So for me, I’m in the transition of sleeping in late on the weekends, and eating as healthy as I can but at the same time, just easily enjoying what that means. Walking every single day with ease, not for some rigorous exercise, but because it’s ease.  Even in the work that I’m doing, that can seem as such a challenge, I take the process as ease. It’s like, “Y’all not gonna do that to me. This is community. I’m not responsible for making everyone happy and healed.” I’m responsible for just holding space for the community and giving some tenancy on how that works. Ease.   And so encouraging people to see that and the wholeness of your life, there is some ease, there is some rest, not just rest, but there’s some real rest, like the soul rest –   Sundae: Not recovery.   Salaam: Yes, not recovery. That’s the word. Yeah, it’s not recovery. It’s soul rest, but your soul, you don’t have anything to recover from, right? It’s not the recovery rest. You don’t rest, so you can get back up and work again. It’s resting so that you’re soaking it up so you can continue to just live inside of your body. So your spirit just continues to thrive with you. It’s because you are rest. Yeah.    Sundae: There are about 99.9% of people listening right now who don’t even know what that would look like to rest, that isn’t just the form of recovery.    Salaam: Yes.    Sundae: It’s a mind-boggling concept. So what about you, in my recent work, I’ve been really explicit about transformation and how there’s three kinds, one is an internal transformation, it’s coming from the inside out. Something just no longer suits you and you feel it inside. Otherwise, it might be external, where something from the outside is impacting you. Or it’s simply like performance led, you have a goal that you want to achieve. What sort of transformations are you working through right now?    Salaam: Wow, Transformations that I’m working through right now, I think internally the biggest transformation that I’m working through right now is sitting still. And for me, what that’s like is I’m a recovering perfectionist, high achiever, all of those, beautiful things. Yes. We have that in common.    Sundae: I’m blushing right now, like, “I have no idea what you’re talking about.”    Salaam: “Whatever could you mean?” So I am sitting with the idea of internally, how do I not just sit my body but just sit still. I’m not coming up with something to do next in my life. I’m one of those idea persons who love projects and ideas and all these next things. And it’s like, I’m allowing it to come to me because I am worthy. I have reclaimed my voice. I am valuable. Why wouldn’t it just come to me? Because I’ve worked for it enough. God knows that. And so in turn, that’s my transformation, a year of sitting still. A year of just sitting still. And I’m also happy, I’m getting ready to work on some external things. I want to do some monologues with women, who are talking about what it’s like to heal. What it’s like to be a part of their culture. What it’s like to write. Yeah. I want to do some things on stage. And all those kinds of things and dream about what it would be like to do those things on TV and all those kinds of things. Yeah.    Sundae: That’s fun. I hear the ease. There’s something playful and fun about that. And I’m also hearing that for me when I hear that, as a recovering perfectionist that just allowing ease and stillness is an ambitious transformation because that’s the opposite of the conditioning that you’ve been raised with.    Salaam: Absolutely. I was raised with a single mother who was strong and worked as a teacher and taught us to do the same, taught me and my brothers to do the same thing. And then being part of western society where it’s go, go, go, go, go, never stop, stop, stop. And now coming off of this pandemic, I cannot go back to the way it was before. What is wrong? Stop people stop. You cannot make me do that anymore or it doesn’t work for me anymore. When I say it doesn’t work for me, literally, physically, my energy and my body doesn’t do it anymore.  Doesn’t do the work performance, doesn’t go there. I can’t even walk as fast as I used to, oh my gosh. Even going into the grocery store, I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to take it a little easy here.” So for me, it looks that way, it looks like the way of totally unconditioning myself from something that wasn’t working for me well, at the time. But I know for my mother, she had to do it, right? She had to do that and it was her love language. It was what she needed to do for us. But today, I don’t need to do that for myself. Yeah.   Sundae: it’s good. It’s like you will no longer let your body betray itself anymore.    Salaam: I will witness my body. Talk about listening but witnessing is when I hear my body and my body hears me. And now, we’re in relationship with one another. And now my body is saying, “You heard me because I heard you. So go over there. Go take your dog for a walk and rest.”    Sundae: Yeah, that’s the thing I tell my clients too. I’m like, “I have to be honest with you. Once you start learning that language of your body, you can’t ignore it anymore.” It won’t let you. So you have to sync up with what your body wants. I know that our time has been racing. But before we go, I want to hear more about what you’re working on right now that you would like others to know about.    Salaam: Yeah. So I think two things is I am really working on the, as a listener poet, looking at innovative ways to bring listener poetry and creative ways into wellness and health spaces. I am really working on ways to use this as an equitable strategy for diversity and inclusion and equity, but more than that for justice. I think it gives us justice when we are heard. It gives us justice when we are listened to. It’s justice when we walk away with a poem that is for us to us by us, or what have you. So I’m working on listening poetry working on looking at ways to not just healthcare professionals, but the world. And fostering their voices. It’s like okay, how can I help right now people give birth to the voice of who and where they are today based on whatever has been happening in their personal lives. So I’m doing a whole lot of listener poetry and you can find out more information about that.    I’m working with individuals. I’m working with groups. And I’m also working with organizations, on ways in which we could use listening as a story cultural tool for your organization or your business. And for those persons that your staffing your employees, really transition and transform, not just your communication in the spaces you are, but if you have better stories, allow us to become storytellers. But we are well, as a result of having the better stories you tell in your organization, the more well off your organization is. And I believe this is one way that I can offer that to folks, through listening poetry.   Sundae: That’s amazing. I don’t know anybody else that is doing it like you and just everything you share is like poetry.  Truly so talented, so, thank you for sharing your talents with us today. It’s been amazing.    Salaam: Thank you for having me, Sundae. Thank you.   So there you have it. This topic is unfortunately, timeless, as we have seen on the news that the need for racial healing has been present for centuries and continues to pervade today. I am grateful for the work Salaam is doing to that healing process.  You’ve been listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. I will leave you with the thoughts of Yoko Ono: “Healing yourself is connected with healing others.”    Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android).   The post 283: Healing & Poetry with Salaam Green appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

The end of a marriage rarely sneaks up on anyone. As my expert guest can attest, it often becomes a “devolution caused by countless papercuts.”   Frequently, these years of compounded unhappiness manifest in a lack of intimacy and ten behavior stages she calls: The Marriage Death Spiral.     It starts out with unaddressed resentment in phase one. By number three, couples can’t seem to stop arguing over the little stuff. Then distractions like overworking or (insert whatever to get away from the tension) come at juncture seven.   So, what are the other behavior stages, and more importantly, how can you turn your relationship around?   Last week, I stretched myself to overcome my “talking about sex” shyness because I promised you that this podcast would be a place where no topic was taboo. And ed by certified sex and intimacy coach Irene Fehr, we kicked off a riveting two-part series about sex and connection.   Irene’s programs have brought marriages back from the dead. Widely respected in her field, Irene specializes in women’s libido and sexual desire in long-term relationships.    And fittingly, for the first part of our series, we dove into the “what” aspect that’s behind enduring couple intimacy. Today, for the meaty conclusion, Irene returns to help us better understand the “how” element of sex and connection for smoother, more satisfying transitions. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The “s” word = sinful Slow food & goalless touch A heartbreaking-yet-kinder option The Lesbian Deathbed Open relationships Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Convinced you don’t have the time for coaching? Think it’s too much money to invest in yourself? Perhaps you should calculate the cost and loss of remaining unsatisfied. Then multiply THAT by however many years you have left. Your first step in a new direction is right here. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Irene Fehr Website Free Video Series: How To Want Sex Again   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP281: Sex & Connection – PT 1 with Irene Fehr This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 10:00 am in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   What if I told you about something that could boost your immune system, protect against heart disease, lower blood pressure, and even lower some risk for specific cancers? All of that and it’s free. Any guess as to what it is. I’ll give you a hint. Three letters: S E X. That is right. You knew it was good but did you know how good it actually is for you.    Welcome to Part Two of this two-part series where we focus on something that is definitely IN TRANSIT or always changing and that is SEX. Together with our guest expert, Irene Fehr, we will explore the many ways our lives are in transit and how that impacts our sex lives, what it takes to transform our sexual relationship with ourselves or with our partner, and perhaps give us some fresh insight on how you can redefine ambitious when it comes to your own sexual transformation. So welcome back Irene for Part Two.    Irene: Thank you so much for having me. Part One was so amazing. I cannot wait for this conversation.   Sundae: I keep thinking about our first conversation. So if people who are listening have not heard Part One yet, you’ve got to go back to it because there was some really, really good bits that you will . That’s for sure.   Let me tell you a little bit more about Irene for those who are new to her world. She is an expert in women’s libido and sexual desire in long-term relationships. She is a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach (CC) and her work is deeply rooted in evidence based practices, including the Gottman Method Couples Therapy and it’s also informed by Somatic Experiencing® to name a few methodologies. She also understands that what her clients go through as she personally has gone through a sexless marriage and the since transformed her own life along with the lives of many, many others.    Irene has been featured in The Thought Catalog, Shape, Cosmopolitan, Scary Mommy, and many more. So, really excited for Part Two  Irene. Let me just briefly bring people up to speed. In Part One, when you are listening, you’ll check out some basics around sex, three types of sex where she helps us understand Friction Sex, Validation Sex, and Connection Sex. And what happens it helps us get a realistic view of sex and and what to expect.    I think one of the things I took away from that conversation is to take the pressure off of of what people think sex should be like, but also paint excitement and hope for what it could be like. So, in this episode, we’re going to dive in to the HOW not just the WHAT. So Irene please help me understand what are some of the biggest HOWs that people wish for when they talk to you when it comes to the sex department?   Irene: Wow, huge question because there’s just so many questions that people have, although, most people are too scared to name them. But the ones that I hear the most are, of course;  How to have better sex, in general, emotionally.  How to talk to your partner about what you want. Especially, if one or both partners are shy. How to decide if you should go to therapy together or if you should do it separately. If you should see a therapist or a sex therapist or sex coach. So understanding all of that. And really the biggest one is, it’s always the communication piece. How do I talk to my partner? How do I tell them what I want? How do I feel freer with them? How do I open up and can just relax around them? So it’s both of communication, verbal communication, but it’s also physical communication. Like, how do I send them signals that I’m enjoying things or that I want other things?   Sundae: Oh, that’s fun. Okay, so, oh gosh. I don’t know if we have time to cover all of those today, but there was one thing I wanted to bring up. You talked about if people feel shy and actually the word that came up for me, was shame. I think at least the culture that I grew up in, sex was, “The S word.” There was so much shame around sex that it’s hard to talk about it openly. We even joked before we started recording episode one that I’m shy about even having this conversation publicly because it’s such a private topic. So, I’m curious before we get into some of the HOWs, what do you see in your work that’s connected to shame? Or do you see shame at all in your work?    Irene: Absolutely. It’s one of the first things that I see because we all grew up with this notion. Like I said, sex is private, sex is something you do behind closed doors. For those of us who grew up with religious backgrounds, there’s even another layer of stigma around it, that it’s shameful. It’s another “S word”, it’s sinful. Right? And a lot of it too is associated with women’s pleasure of it, that so much of the religious bent on it has been that it’s for men’s pleasure and women enjoying it, that in itself is a sin. You should be doing it as a service to a man. So there’s that shame.    There’s just shame also when it comes to our bodies. So many cultures put shame on the body. That the body is this, dirty thing that has these animalistic desires and that it’s ugly or it stinks or things like that. So, so many people have so much shame about again, their bodies, the way they look, the way they smell, all of that. And of course, in sex, the point is to show your body to your partner, and shame shows up there.    And shame shows up with the desires, anything relating to what you want. What you want in the moment. Like you want to kiss longer or you want to make out or you want a certain position and especially the kind of desires that are more taboo or more kinky. We have shame around all of them and it’s just a different mix of people to people who have had more negative experiences in one area versus the other, they’ll have more shame there. But again, it just it’s all across the board.    Sundae: So I think it’s important to just name that. So if people are noticing that there’s shame around the topic. They’re not alone. It’s very connected to historical power dynamics, identity. So deep deep deep stuff. So it’s a miracle that we actually enjoy it!    Irene: We have fight against all these barriers to be able to enjoy it. And what you said is very true. It’s like, “Wow, if we can enjoy it. It’s a miracle. It’s a feat.”   Sundae: So let’s acknowledge that that might be something you have to work through in this process of enjoying it. So let’s start with just one of those, you talked about a very basic question; How can someone physically have better sex? I know that is so individual, so personal. But what is one thing that you think people often overlook when it comes to finding answers to that question?    Irene: Well, the biggest thing that people overlook when it comes to the physical aspect is actually the other question that we haven’t gotten to, which is the emotional aspect.    And that is because when we think of sex, we really just are conditioned to think about the physical.   Experience gets generalized, that that’s sexual desire. Or we think of sexual pleasure, as just that orgasm that we have.    Well, that comes and goes and it’s and it’s affected by a lot of things. And in the beginning of a relationship that comes naturally, but that naturally dies out in a long-term relationship. Something we talked at length about in the first episode. And so, then, once that wears off, what’s left? What’s left is actually Emotional Connection. And when it comes to pleasure too, this is especially true for women, we can do something once twice maybe three times and still have it be exciting. But after those three times, it’s going to feel repetitive. And there were going to lose the pleasure of the thing that was extremely pleasurable the first time. And that’s because our bodies are not made to do repetitive things over and over.    And without that emotional connection that’s going to allow both people to really tune into each other and create something new, like something new that really fits the moment, that physical pleasure is going to go away, or it’s going to be really minimal.    Sundae: Create something new to fit the moment. Create something new to fit the moment. That’s really beautiful. You specialize in long-term relationships. So I’m thinking, that’s a lot to ask for.  Create something new to fit the moment, when you’ve been together for 25 years, 30 years. What is it that people need to keep that spirit?    Irene: Well, the first and really biggest thing is to let go of this idea that, you know your partner because you don’t. And this old idea that once we do something sexually, that is how we are is really damaging and it’s very limiting to our human potential.    Who we were sexually 16 is not who we are at 46 and 66 and 86.    Sundae: Oh, I love this. My word for the year is infinite possibilities, and this completely ties into that philosophy.    Irene: Exactly. Let’s use this analogy across the board. We don’t assume that we’re the same people so we should not assume this in our sex lives. So by the way, I look at these numbers up and they are staggering. So our skin changes over every like seven days, our liver changes over every three months. Now, don’t quote me on these exact numbers because I don’t them, but it was something like this, our entire body changes over every seven years. So by no means are we actually the same as we were before. And things change, what life stage you’re in. You might be pursuing opportunities when you’re 20, or you might be retiring from opportunities when you’re 60, and your desire is going to follow that. If and only if we really slow down to tune into what is our body and our soul, what are they all saying to us? What’s actually being called forth here?    Sundae: That’s gorgeous. I had no idea that conversation was going to go this direction. It makes me think of a quote that I was just speaking about the other night, about a woman, she said, “I’ve been married six times but to the same person.”    Irene: Yeah.   Sundae: So this idea of not assuming to know your partner. I love that. And It’s so easy for me to accept that I’m a very different person from when I was 27, but it’s easier to forget that our partner is too.    Irene:  Yeah, and it really if we get very philosophical around this, think about our experiences, every day, you go to work, your partner goes to work and you come back, having experienced different things. And it may be, hearing, I don’t know, a co-worker’s story at the office may actually transform you. It may crack your heart open or it may scare you to death, and you come home in a different place.    And we discount that. And we don’t get curious about these pieces, which goes back to this question about emotionally connecting with each other. We share lives on a very practical day-to-day basis, but we don’t actually share our hearts with each other. And so it may look like you’re sleeping next to the same person, you have no idea what’s in what has been going on inside of them. Or again, what touched them during the day that maybe cracked their heart open or closed it up. We don’t know. And we’re opaque, so you cannot figure out just by looking on the outside of what’s happening on the inside.    And how to make your sex better is about learning to connect emotionally, learning to have these new eyes towards your partner, and really get curious. What’s in their heart. What are they wanting today? What did learn or how did they change today? What are they excited about or scared about? All these questions can take your sex life, even what you’ve been doing before to a whole new level.   Sundae: If you have an emotional connection and that is sustained throughout the day that can really amplify your sexual connection when you’re together.   So what do you do if one partner is more comfortable with emotional intimacy and the other is quite new to it?    Irene: Well, we can look at this from the perspective of, “Well, my partner’s not comfortable with it. So, how do I change them? What do I do? How do I fix them? How do I in a way change the situation?” And this is where so many people get in trouble. Myself included. If I look at my past, that, “It’s not going the way I wanted to. I need to change my partner.” A different approach to this if your partner is uncomfortable with it is for you to model vulnerability and model emotional connection. That so much of what the foundation of emotional connection is safety. If we don’t feel safe with each other and if we don’t feel safe with ourselves, like we don’t trust ourselves to tell the truth or to really open up with a partner rather than pretend or perform, especially around sex, we’re not going to.  So the safety piece is the foundation of emotional connection. And we create that by being emotionally vulnerable ourselves. We model that. And with that we open the door to our partners. Now, the key is not a firehose our partners with our emotional vulnerability. It is about honoring yourself and honoring your truth and also honoring their pace. So it may be that you talk about something for 15 minutes. And then you give each other a break. And you come back the next day rather than spending three, four, five hours talking about something.    So it’s both creating safety by being vulnerable yourself and opening or giving an invitation to your partner to do the same and doing it in measured amounts. Giving them space. Because just like with anything new just like if you have an exercised for several years and go to the gym and you spent three hours at the gym the first day, you’re going to be hurting the next day. There’s just no way about that. So it’s the moderation piece. Do it in moderation. Get your partner feeling safe today and tomorrow and the next day. And then they’ll open up more and more.    Sundae: That’s great. That’s great. Such wise advice. So how do you start that talk? What’s the first step?    Irene: The first step is really about; Getting honest with yourself about what is it that you want. Now, this is very, very, very, very hard for most people because, especially when things have been going so well, we focus on what’s not working. “Not getting my needs met. He or she doesn’t want to give what I want to me. They’re resisting. They’re not doing this.” Blah blah blah. So we usually are having the sex conversation or conversations about sex way too late after we have spun out in our heads already and catastrophized and thought about worst-case scenarios and built-up resentment and all of that. So it’s really important to get in touch with that and to be really honest, and take responsibility for it. Even though your partner may be responsible for a lot of stuff in whatever situation you’re in. But the key is to take ownership like, “Yeah, I did want to take more time to do sensual things. I wanted to take baths together or ask for a massage, but I was too scared.” I didn’t want to be an inconvenience to my partner or I didn’t want to take up their energy or something like that. So I didn’t. And that was necessary for me to get aroused. And to actually get into my body. And so I had sex too early. I had sex that wasn’t really pleasurable for me because I wasn’t ready. So, if you can notice here, I’m taking responsibility for how I contributed to the situation.   Sundae: But listen, it’s so much easier to just say, “Yeah, the other person is to blame.” And it’s so deep, right? It’s about self-worth. It’s ing our voice. It’s it goes deep. So this makes me think about the question, some people are perfectly prepared to maybe read some of your blog articles or resources online that are out there. There’s a lot more conversation around both emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy. But there are some cases where people really would benefit from . What are the signs where it’s time to get from someone like yourself or another person who specializes in this area?   Irene: This is a great question. And I actually have an infographic on this and a whole article which is what I call, The Marriage Death Spiral. And whether you’re at the first stage of the spiral, which is if you imagine the spiral, it’s narrow at the top and then it gets wider and wider as it spirals down, if you are at the top of the spiral, you will definitely benefit from . If you’re at the bottom of the spiral, you cannot move forward without . You need life . Basically, your relationship needs life . And so anyway, wherever you are on the spiral, is going to be really important in reestablishing that safety in your relationship. And so I’m just going to go over the 10 pieces of the spiral and then the listeners can go to the article. But any of these are going to cause more damage in the relationship if they’re happening.    So the first one is resentment. If you’re experiencing resentment towards your partner, even if it’s still like the early stage where you’re like, “You did the dishes wrong,” or, “Why did you take the garbage out this way,” it’s going to continue to cause damage if it’s not nipped in the bud.  Because resentment grows into complaining and complaining turns into feeling really not heard in your relationship and criticized.  Which turns into defensiveness and arguing over the little stuff. which means that you are getting into arguments all the time, which is contributing to eventually death by a thousand paper cuts. You’re not fighting about anything meaningful, but these are hurtful each time you’re having it.  And so it leads to distancing and pulling away from each other.  And then you start to manage each other and walk on eggshells. Like, “I can’t tell him that,” “I can’t tell her that.” Or you start to – this is what I see a lot with women and myself, this was me and my marriage– starting to manage the situation around sex. Like I don’t want him to get the wrong signals. I am not going to wear – I’m not going to walk naked in front of my partner because I don’t want him to get wrong signals. Or sex is like a sequence of, “Do this, then do that, then do this. And do not stray from this script because we’re not going to have it.” It becomes an incredibly rigid script, which then of course, feels terrible and you start to withhold from each other. You really withhold what you’re experiencing emotionally, what you want, everything. You might start lying like, “No, I’m fine. It’s fine.”  Which leads to feeling a lot of shame about what’s happening in the relationship and starting to hide your relationship from others. You go to parties and you smile, everything is great, but you’re not telling people that you’re struggling.  Which has you focused on distractions to get relief. So somehow work starts getting busier, you decide to get chickens and you build a chicken coop and dedicate yourself to raising chickens. I speak about that from experience.  But underneath this is just a band-aid because underneath you’re actually experiencing a ton of fear and you’re catastrophizing, “Can this last? Can I last in this? What’s going to happen if we break up?”  And ultimately it leads to a lack of trust and it could be doubting your own, whether your partner loves you and questioning whether they’re actually doing what they say that they’re doing it. “Is he over there working? Or is he watching porn?” Or, “Is she really going out with girlfriends? Why is she dres to go out? Is she going to see someone else?” So that lack of trust is the nail in the coffin.   Sundae: I was like have we hit the bottom yet? Because we are down low. Wow, that is incredible and thank you for sharing that because I think they’re going to be many listeners who think, “Wow, boom, boom, boom.” There are so many points on there that people can identify with. So I think just naming that as red flags, is a wonderful entrance to a conversation to say, “Hey honey, I noticed I’m feeling resentment,” or, “We’re in my place of defensiveness and I don’t want to go further on the spiral.” That is wonderful.    Irene: Yeah, exactly. And it’s also a conversation starter with your partner. Like you said, instead of focusing on individual complaints or grievances, you appoint an expert, which is usually more powerful than trying to explain something that you’ve tried to explain a thousand other times before. And that’s where expertise is really important. Most people can figure their relationships out by themselves if they spent the next 20 years reading over the literature, getting experience, getting education in the area, getting experience with hundreds of couples, but the reality is, obviously no one’s going to do that. And so the key is to get someone who’s an expert who can see through this.    When I start talking to couples, literally the first call that I have with them, which is a free consultation, I see these, they don’t need to tell me their history. I see how they talk to each other. I see what words they use, I see how they look at each other, or they don’t I can tell them exactly where they are. And that’s the benefit of working with an expert   Sundae: But I think there’s also a danger when you’re in a space and you go out like two friends, let’s say, “Hey, this is happening.” They might say, “Yeah, that’s normal because it’s happening to me, too.” Or, “That happened in with my parents.” It’s sort of normalizes bad. And it doesn’t paint a picture of how it could be better. So, those are really important things, I think. And seeking an expert if you’re somewhere on that spiral and, you know just having a few conversations about it isn’t enough, probably is a big sign. It’s time to get outside .    Irene: Yeah and plus with, like I said, with conversations, so many, so many of our tactics around communication is to say what we said a thousand other times, but this time louder or articulating more clearly, what we said last time. Or just piling it on kind of like, with advertising.   So, all of these are terrible strategies, because the more you do them, the more disconnected you get. The less safe it becomes in the relationship. And so the next time you pile on the same argument, your partner’s heart is going to be closed. It’s going to have like another lock on it.    And so when couples get stuck in the same pattern, like, “Wow, we’re having the same conversation over and over and over.” That means that their hearts have close to each other and they need an intervention.    Sundae: Yeah, makes sense. So far, we’ve talked about, we need emotional intimacy to build on sexual intimacy. We’ve looked at, we have to do our own work to work through articulating and naming what our needs are. We’ve talked about some of the downward spiral when things are bad and how do you sort of slow that spiral or go back up again.    Can we talk about the good stuff?    Irene: Yes.    Sundae: Decent intimacy, decent sex life, but maybe they’re mindful of, “Hey, we’ve been together for a long time and we’re going to be together for a long time. How can we inject something fresh into our lives?” Even when there isn’t a problem. What do you suggest for people who are in that situation?    Irene: Yeah. So once you have that foundation of emotional connection, then the physical aspect, there’s endless possibilities. And you don’t even have to fold yourself into a pretzel, a thousand different times, like origami, one of those origami things, to get sexual pleasure. That actually, there’s so much available when you’re connected because actually your whole body is more turned on when you’re connected. That’s especially true for women. Men normally arousal is not their problem. However, well, let me speak first for women. So our arousal goes up our body responds more to pleasure when we are emotionally connected and what that means is blood flows to the genitals. They become more supple and engorged. So you’re having pleasure not from friction, but actually from all that blood thumping and throbbing in your genitals, which means it activates this whole network of 8,000 nerve endings all connected to the clitoris. So there’s so much pleasure to be had there.    But when it comes to men, men, like I said, generally don’t have problems with arousal, but what they do have is that they have arousal that’s very localized and they miss out on a whole bunch of arousal throughout their whole body. So they’ll probably be aroused in their penis and their balls and the sensation is there. But would they miss out on by having sex that last five minutes is that they miss out on the aliveness in their skin, in their body, in their hearts, everywhere else, but the genitals. And so, when you have emotional connection, you can actually take time to explore that and men can start to experience full body orgasms. Not just localized genital orgasms. They can last longer in this journey of arousal. And that’s actually nourishing.    So typically men will substitute quantity for quality. They will want to orgasm at least once a day, if not a couple of times a day and that creates nice sensations, but because the rest of their body is not getting nourishment, again, quantity is taking place of quality. But when men are able to and are interested in learning how to build that arousal and connection to their own body through sensuality, through prolonged arousal states, they will find that they don’t want sex as often because it’s like a full meal.  When you’ve had a full meal, you don’t need to eat an hour later. You’re not hungry again because you didn’t get what you needed. So, what’s really interesting is that when – and this is something that is not talked about. However, it underlies a lot of our assumptions about women in particular and that is that when the quality of the sex that a couple, I’ll use a heterosexual couple but this also is applicable to any couple, but specifically with a heterosexual couple, when both partners are having exquisite sex, sex that is connected emotionally, that allows them to really explore the physicality of it through sensuality, through these heightened states of arousal, a sense of freedom in their bodies, men want less sex after that because they get filled up. They get very nourished. They get filled up.    Sundae: It’s like slow food.    Irene: Yeah, exactly. And again, it nourishes them on so many different levels that they feel full. Leaving the table full, which is a great feeling. But here’s the surprising thing. It’s not the same with for women. When women are having exquisite sex, they are – I’m at a loss for the word, but they want more and more of it.   Sundae: Are you getting distracted again? *laughter*   Irene: *laughter* My mind just went to that place.    Sundae: See episode one, where that happened. Now it happened again. *laughter* I love it.   Irene: *laughter* I’m at a loss for words because I’ve been transported to that state.   Sundae: What a gorgeous thing, right? Because I always say this, when people say, “Well men just want sex more often than women,” and it’s like, is that true? And what are the conditions and what are the optimal conditions for both, right? So what I’m hearing is it’s not black and white. It isn’t already a given in advance. That there are ways that we can connect, that will actually steer how we interact with each other. And I’m hearing more sensuality. I’m hearing maybe a little bit more time. And, when you have the emotional connection, the sexual connection flows. I’m guessing it might be a safe way to enter the conversation for those who aren’t used to having the emotional connection.  If you sort of like tease out that, “Hey, this will lead to the thing that you’re more comfortable with. Let’s experiment.” That might be interesting.    Irene: Yeah absolutely. And you know all of this adds up to play. So sensuality is exploring and teasing your body with stimulation through touch, through kissing, through different implements and toys. And that allows you to play. That allows a couple to create this literally this playpen where they don’t do things that they get to do in the rest of their lives. They get to play with their bodies, they get to step into a role that they don’t get to do otherwise, and so that amplifies all of this. Again, it’s a realm that you don’t share with anyone else, and you don’t share that out in the public. You don’t share that walking through the supermarket. Although you may, you can do it desolately with these kinds of inside jokes or inside experiences. But basically this realm is just it’s so private and it’s so unique in that way. It’s something that you get to share with each other and that’s amazing and cool. And again, fulfills us in ways that nothing else does.    Sundae: And that goes back to this conversation about creating something new to fit the moment. Letting go of knowing your partner because you’re discovering through that play. So I’m just noticing, we could talk about this forever and I want to make sure that we make time for some of our questions from our audience and it’s actually about the opposite. It’s about, no sex. One of the questions is: A sexless marriage can be fine if both parties just don’t want sex. But how do you manage a situation where one half still wants sex and the other doesn’t, especially when sexual intimacy is really important to the one who wants sex?    Irene: Yeah and again we can spend hours on this, and it is such a difficult question that has a lot of potential for heartbreak. And I would put this question in the category of big questions in a relationship such as does one person want children or not? Because I’ll use the children question as an example. Having children is a question not just about, do you want to get a blue car or red car? But it’s about either living out a dream or a legacy or fulfilling something in you that’s really essential.   Sundae: Like a part of your identity.   Irene: Part of your identity, right? Part of your mission in this lifetime or in this world. Part of maybe your religious purpose in life or your spiritual purpose. Whatever it is, it’s a big question and it’s an important one. Where if you don’t have, if you don’t fulfill this in some way, you’re going to miss out on something that’s really important to you. And so sex is like that for some people, not everyone. For some people sex is preferring a blue car versus a red car, it’s a nice to have. It’s a fun thing. Or like getting a Porsche versus getting a Ford. It’s a nice luxury. I’ll take it if it’s available but not a big deal.    But for others, for whom like I said, it’s more of a question of, “Do I want children or not?” It’s not really an option. And so the key is just to really understand where you fall into this. And if it is on the level of wanting to have children and your partner does not, it’s really about understanding again, the importance of it and honoring yourself. Can you live the rest of your life fully? Can you show up in your relationship joyfully and from a full cup? Like, you have things that make you really come alive and that really fulfill you, can you show up from that place? Or is giving up on sex something that is going to actually deplete you? Or is going to require you to give up a part of yourself? And ultimately the latter, giving up a part of yourself is going to affect your partner negatively. And so, if you’re not on the same page, sometimes the kinder thing to do, the more loving thing to do is to let each other go so that we can pursue the things that are really important to us. And like I said, wow, this can be potentially hard braking but the alternatives are also heartbreaking.   Sundae: This is so complex. Because also having a polyamorous relationship could add a whole other level layer of hard.   Irene: Yeah opening a relationship can work for some people. It really depends on the maturity of the couple, how mature and how connected they are to each other. So it’s not the maturity as in intelligence or being adults, but the maturity of the relationship if they’re really connected. And if they’re coming from this place of the kinder thing to do is to open up our marriage so that you pursue what you want. That’s one thing. You can also, of course, open up your marriage to just solve a problem that you’re not willing to look at and that’s going to backfire at some point.   Sundae: Thank you for that. That’s important. I think it’s also important to talk about times where there is that gap. And then the next question I have from the audience, we’ve talked a lot about heterosexual relationships, but specifically, in the lesbian community, there is another layer of challenge when it comes to sexual connection. And one of the questions is about libido, and if you have two women who are going through menopause and people’s libido might be impacted based on hormones and they might be impacted differently. What I’ve learned from the lesbian community is that there’s this phrase called The Lesbian Deathbed, where sexual intimacy stops. I don’t know how much experience you have with a lesbian community for this species or whether that is actually still relevant in the heterosexual community, but does it have to be this way? What are your thoughts on that?    Irene: So my experience with lesbian couples is that they experience the death of sex, the way I described it in the previous episode, wherein the beginning, there’s that natural excitement, then it wears off. And a big piece of it is all of it is for the exact same reasons. In the beginning, it’s the hormones. The hormones are making you do it. Then the love is making you do it. But then when all of that settles, the hormones wane, the love starts to have cracks in it. Resentment starts to build in, the disappointments grow, all of that, that hormone driven sexual ion dies out. And so with two women, you actually have an amplification of the emotional disconnect because both partners are really sensitive to it, more sensitive than if it was a heterosexual couple. So if there’s that emotional disconnect, and they start down on that spiral, again, it’s gets amplified because it connection just has a bigger influence on both of them. So in a way it is it has bigger impact on lesbian couples.   Sundae: And it also sounds connected to what we talked about in episode one, about people who are initiating sex more often versus people who are receptive to sex. And if there’s a hormone loss, in the libido loss, the initiator might take away the initiator role.    Irene: Exactly. And then you’re left with both people not initiating and everything disappearing. And last thing I want to say about hormones. And I want to point to this being the theme in my work. Is that our reliance on hormones to drive our sexual desire is a recipe for failure because our hormones change with age whether you’re a woman or a man, hormones change and hormones depend on a lot of different things which makes them unreliable. If things are going great, they’re up. If things are not going great, like you are not eating well, you haven’t exercised,  you haven’t slept, this and that, they will not work reliably. And so to base your sexual desire in a long-term relationship on hormones, like I said, is a recipe for failure.    The opposite is learning to connect emotionally and explore each other, play with each other’s bodies through sensuality, through goalless touch, through stimulation of different kinds. To meet your body and actually to create responsiveness. So it’s like when no one is touching, you are neutral, but when someone starts to play with your body, you start to respond positively, like, “Oh, wow, that feels good. First, I feel relaxed, then I started to get tingles and start to feel a little bit fired up. And now, I’m just like jumping on my partner and kissing them because I have so much desire flowing out of the out of me.” All of that starts to build up. And this we have control over.    Sundae: This is also so inspiring like, when I was sharing with you in the last episode about Ashton Aapplewhite’s book, This Chair Rocks, and how she shared how it’s possible to have that kind of sensual or sexual connection into your mid-70s or mid-80s, and that’s exactly what you’ve said. It’s through this nonreliance on hormones and actually the reliance, what I’m hearing is on the intention, the intention is to stay connected. Not, “We are connected. So let’s do that.” It’s, “Let’s connect. And then it will lead to other sort of playful ways.” So that is a huge takeaway for me. What I’ve learned from your work and what I’m learning from others in this area and that’s so exciting. Because actually, what you need is that intentional, not hormones.    Irene: Exactly, intention. And also practices in place. For those people who are familiar with yoga, it’s that by showing up to yoga even without doing all the poses, or without doing everything, or doing it well, just by showing up and by committing to showing up, you actually are practicing this. So it’s about showing up to be with each other and then in that moment, determining what’s appropriate. Because in some moments, let’s say you show up to your daily 15 minutes of connection time, which is one of the things I teach my couples to do is every day connect physically. When they show up to that one day, it could be that they are so hot for each other because they’ve had an amazing time throughout the rest of the day and they just want to rip their clothes off each other and make out and leap into sex.    And other times they are they’re grieving a loss. So there was a funeral earlier that day and their connection during that time is obviously going to be very different and it’s about finding what that physical, maybe first comfort to each other might look like, to then maybe using central touch and stimulation to actually show love to each other while one or both people are grieving. To expressing grief through movement with each other, or whatever may show up. And this is where the realm of possibilities is endless.    Sundae: It’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful. I always think about, now that I’m middle-aged, I’ve been middle-aged for a while, you appreciate wisdom from your parents in fresh ways. And my mom always said, they’ve been married for over 50 years, she always said, “Sundae. Do you think that your father and I would be married for five more years if we stopped working on the relationship?” And I was actually like, “Yeah because you guys are given.” But I get it, this is this idea of intention and practice. That even if you’ve been married for 50 years, if you stop the shared intention, if you stopped the practice that things will will decline. So that’s beautiful.    Gosh. Thank you so much. There’s so much that you shared. I know there’s so much more. Do you mind if we just turn our attention to you as an individual just for a second before we wrap up and help people understand where they can find you. So on my show, I talk about Ambitious, Transformation in Transition, and I’m always very interested in hearing from our experts, what’s going on in their lives? Because it’s as an expert, you’re on a pedestal and you look like, you got it all together, but we all know that humans are messy. So I’m curious for just for you right now. When you hear, “Your life in tansit,” what transitions are meaningful for you right now or are you feeling?    Irene: Well, for me, I feel like I’m going to end of a transition stage which is a transition in and of itself. So I moved to a new country, the Netherlands, almost two and a half years ago and so in the COVID hit. So there’s been a lot of transitioning, a lot of just chaos happening and I feel like I’ve settled. And this is now opening up so much more energy to do things that I want and I love it. I love this now stage where I have more time or energy, more freedom to pursue things that really were on the back burner because of COVID and the move and everything else. And so, one of the things is pursuing this dream that I’ve had now for many years, which is to work with horses. And my background and training in somatic experiencing has really transformed the way I look at horses, the way I understand them, and the way I see, the value that they provide. And so I started working with horses and they’re kicking my ass. Literally and figuratively.   Sundae: Talk about confronting yourself, right?   Irene: Exactly. And one of the most powerful things, which is again, it’s fueling this inner transition in me, this inner transformation is that you can break a horse, but that’s not the kind of horsemanship that I’m into. I really want to make horses into my partners. And so what I’m having to learn to do is how to play with a horse. And one of the things I heard from one of my teachers, is this idea of playing with the horses energy. Engaging it and bringing out the best of it. And then they feel safe with you. They open up with you and they want to do more. And, I do that so well with humans and now it’s like, wow, now we get to do this with this thousand-pound animal and again, it’s just it works so well with everything I’ve done and it’s also pushing me to these new edges. And I love it. I feel like I am reaching this new level of growth that I didn’t know existed, and super excited for it.   Sundae: It makes so much sense. Like you said, you’ve been working with sensual energy, sexual energy. Now, it makes sense that you go to another level. So, tell us a little bit about what you define as ambitious right now? Because as I shared with my community, ambition needs to be defined by yourself for yourself, rather than being influenced by some external scope or scale. So for you, what is ambitious right now?    Irene: It’s also relates to the horses that it’s been a long time dream for me to have a retreat center. And I had to put all of that off to the back burner in these last couple of years. And so, for me, ambition is giving myself permission to dream big. This is what I want. I want to have a retreat center with horses. I want to do couples work with horses, eventually, but when I learned how to be with horses. So yeah, in a way again, like I mentioned the chaos has subsided and I’m opening myself up to some of these big dreams. I don’t have to be surviving from day to day because the last couple of years have been crazy. It’s like, “Okay, what are my big dreams? And what is it that I really want?” And reconnecting to that and giving myself permission to do that. Even though horse wise I may not be there yet. But yeah, just allowing myself to dream big.   Sundae:  It’s gorgeous. So listen, there’s something I can’t end this episode without asking you. I want to know how people respond to you at a party when you tell them that you are an expert in women’s libido and sexual desire?    Irene: Well, there’s two types of people. Some, tell me that they have to rearrange their sock drawer and it has to happen immediately and they have to leave. And then there’s others who love the topic and can’t stop talking about it. So I love parties where there’s more of the latter and less of the former. But It’s often people pause, where they’re like, “Wait, did you just say what you said that you do?”    Sundae: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. For those of you who are listening, please go and check out her website. Your blog is amazing. You give so much insight and I when I was prepping for our call I was like, “Oh, this is a really good article. Are you prepping for the call anymore Sundae?” It’s really, really wonderful. You’ve got great things there. So I’m going to put that in the show notes. People get a hold of you and what’s the best way that you like people to be in with you?   Irene: Yeah, my website is that its IreneFehr.com and so you can me there or set up a consultation, free videos here series and other videos, you can read articles. That’s the best way.    Sundae: Wonderful. So check it out. It’s been so wonderful. Thank you for ing me in this two-part series. It’s been so wonderful, Irene, I  wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.    Irene: Thank you. And I love this interview because I get to laugh so much too and even though it’s a serious topic. You made it super easy. So thank you.    Sundae: You can see where we definitely connect on play.   Irene: Yes.  Sundae: And emotional intimacy as well. So for all of you listening, thank you for being here. This is IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean, thank you for being here. I’m going to leave you with the words from Janine Roth and I had no idea when I picked out this quote how apt it would be to our conversation. So here it is: “Intimacy is not something that just happens between two people. It is a way of being alive. At every moment, we are choosing either to reveal ourselves or to protect ourselves. To value ourselves or to diminish ourselves. To tell the truth or to hide. To dive into life or to avoid it. Intimacy is making the choice to be connected to, rather than isolated from our deepest truth as that moment.” Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android).   The post 282: Sex & Connection Part 2 with Irene Fehr appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

Shocking the world in August 1991, American hip hop trio Salt-N-Pepa released their highly controversial song, “Let’s Talk About Sex.” The following is an excerpt from their globally chart-topping, Grammy-nominated hit. “Let’s talk about sex, baby Let’s talk about you and me Let’s talk about all the good things And the bad things that may be   Ladies, all the ladies, Louder now, help me out Come on, all the ladies Let’s talk about sex, all right   Yo, Pep, I don’t think they’re gonna play this on the radio And why not? Everybody havin’ sex…” Here we are, 31 years later, and talking about it — especially the kind between long-term couples — still remains taboo. I won’t lie – it took everything in me to get over my own shyness and commit to breaking that silence. This is me keeping my promise of  straight-talk on all of life’s transitions, and our sexual lives are part of that, right? So… WELCOME to an uncensored, scorching two-part series all about sex and connection. There is NO WAY I am going to do this alone, so this week I’m beyond grateful to be flanked by certified sex and intimacy coach Irene Fehr as she warms us up by talking about the basics. A specialist in women’s libido and sexual desire in long-term relationships, Irene’s work has been featured in multiple big-name publications. Irene has gone through a sexless marriage and understands the immense shadow lack of intimacy casts over a relationship. Today, Irene s us to debunk myths, reinforce benefits,  and share juicy sex coach secrets to (re)activate our sexual appetites and create deeper connection.  What You’ll Learn in this Episode: The dangers of faking your orgasms Setting expectations up for the long haul The three types of sex & two kinds of orgasms Unpacking the baggage behind rejection Diminishing returns of attraction Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Our gift to you. Is there a burning sex question you want to ask Irene? Get it answered right here — no cost, no judgment, no limits.  Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC Irene Fehr Website Free Video Series: How To Want Sex Again   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP105: Tiny Moves, Big Impact This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 10:00 am in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   So if you’ve been a longtime listener, you might back in episode 105: Tiny Moves, Big Impact where I talked about my undergarments and I turned red. And again today, I probably will turn red, because guess what? We’re going to spend the next two episodes talking about sex and I hope I don’t die. Why this even freaks me out is reason enough for us to talk about sex. Why is this a taboo? Why is this something that isn’t part of our integrated conversations? We are sexual beings and it’s normal how we express ourselves sexually and how we enjoy ourselves sexually will also change over time. And if you know my work, you know my work is centered on our lives IN TRANSIT and we’re constantly going rough some transformation whether it’s internal, external, or performance led. And if that doesn’t connect to sex, I don’t know what does.    So I’m not gonna have this conversation by myself today. I have brought in an expert and she will help us understand the many ways our lives are IN TRANSIT and how that impacts our sex lives. What it takes to transform our sexual relationship with ourselves, or with our partner or partners. And perhaps give us some fresh insight on how you can redefine, ambitious, when it comes to your own sexual transformation. Irene Fehr, thank you for ing us on IN TRANSIT today.    Irene: Thank you so much for having me.    Sundae: So let me tell you a little bit about Irene for those who are not familiar with her work, she is a sex and intimacy coach and she specializes in women’s libido and sexual desire in long-term relationships. She’s also a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach (CC) and her work is deeply rooted in evidence based practices, including the Gottman Method Couples Therapy and it’s also informed by Somatic Experiencing®, just to name a few. She also understands what our clients go through as she personally had gone through a sexless marriage and has since transformed her life. Irene has been featured in Thought Catalog, Shape, Cosmopolitan, Scary Mommy, and many many more. So, Irene, I am so excited to have you here today.    Irene: I’m excited for this very potentially, really juicy conversation we’re about to have.   Sundae: *laughter* You knew what was going to happen before we started because I sent you an email and I’m like, “I am so uncomfortable, talking about sex. This is going to be a great interview.”    Irene: Exactly. It’s like when it’s uncomfortable, is the thing that we most need to do, and thank you for doing this, for having me.    Sundae: Well, I was thinking about this independently and then you and I hopped on a call in advance and we decided this is going to be a two-part series. So today, we’re going to kick off with talking about straight talk, straight talk about sex, and what’s really happening in our lives that maybe people are afraid to talk about. And I think, why don’t we just start with some of the basics, Irene? What are some things that we need to know about sex that either is a common misperception or we don’t talk about?    Irene: Well, I think there’s so much out there these days in the world about sex when you’re single. So there’s obviously in the media, movies portray women who are single, like Sex and the City, there’s a lot of talk about liberating womens’ sexual desire and so in a way, we’ve come a long way in sex in that area. But what I’m most interested about is sex in a long-term relationship. And to this day, this area is incredibly taboo. Incredibly secretive, with very little information. So, I want to lay out some basics around what happens to sex in a long-term relationship. Because we’ve all heard this joke, almost this truism that when you get married expect sex to die out. And unfortunately, that is the experience of many couples. So there’s almost evidence for the truism.   And I wanted to debunk some myths and I want to layout, like you said, the basics, the expectations around this because what I find is that couples go into relationships with idealistic thoughts or thoughts that the way they are sexually, in the beginning, is going to last and they get disappointed and heartbroken. And oftentimes it breaks up relationships. So again, my goal is to debunk some myths and set realistic expectations, and also kind of translate what’s actually happening.   Sundae: Right? So we say if sex fades, then maybe our connection has faded, like we make it mean something.    Irene: Absolutely, we question ourselves, “Are we good enough?” We questioned each other, “Is my partner good enough for me?” We question our love for each other. Really, like, “Is this love real? Because why isn’t it pulling us through this challenge?”    So let me lay this out so it makes sense, how couples get to that place. And so, when we think about dating usually for most people, sex is really easy in the beginning because it’s coming from this strong draw to each other. We can’t keep our hands off each other. We’re thinking about each other. We are touching each other when we’re together. It’s almost like we are high on drugs and these drugs are moving us towards our partner and there is a lot of truth to that. When we meet someone and we click, there’s this emotional connection, like, “Wow, this person gets me!” Or, “Wow, we’re having fun together.” And there’s of course physical connection, “Wow, I’m really attracted to this person. I’m thinking about them. My body is aroused,” All these things are happening. And there is a biological urge behind this and that is around procreation at a very primary basic level.    And so that urge is wanting us to connect to hook up, and to make a baby, whether or not you want to, but that’s what those hormones are doing. And it’s a very powerful cocktail of hormones drawing us to each other. So in that, sex is easy. Sexual desire is plenty to come by and especially when it comes to women’s libido and the beginning of a relationship that usually looks as high as a man’s. She also wants to engage, she’s ready. And this is one of those deceptive things that couples really misunderstand later on, but let me get there in a moment. So sex, in the beginning, is what I call; Friction Sex. Again, lots of desire –   Sundae: *laughter* Get that out there. That’s what’s going on.    Irene: Exactly.    Sundae: Just a quick caveat. I want to make sure that in this conversation, people know that we’re talking about heterosexual couples and same-sex couples. So whatever we talk about, this should be seen not just through a heterosexual lens. So friction, I guess goes for all of the above.    Irene: Exactly. And that is really like, you have actually a lot of friction in your own body, a lot of tension and that tension is removed through friction like rubbing each other’s bodies against each other. And yeah, so I’m being very literal when I say friction and absolutely applies to everyone. And that hormonal draw is so primal in us in whatever configuration of a relationship you have.  And what’s also specific to friction sex is that it’s what I call “good weather sex” because everything is usually really easy in the beginning. It’s all about having fun and having an amazing moment together, but the drawback to that is that we don’t like to welcome those two vulnerable moments. Or moments where we have to kind of stop and address some kind of issue. So in a way, we avoid those.    Sundae: And are you talking specifically about during sex or something in the relationship?   Irene: Actually both. This is a stage where a lot of people will not mention what they really want, whether it’s been outside of sex or in sex because they don’t want to quote unquote, ruin the moment. Or they don’t want to expose something vulnerable about themselves. So they hold back because you really want to impress each other. And of course, they don’t want to be rejected. But the problem with that is that this is again why it becomes good weather sex, it’s just sex when things are perfect. And we don’t make space for the real things, things that we experience. And a lot of people see the natural diminishing returns of this. So sex may be hot and ionate for the first couple of months, but then it starts to get less and less ionate because the physical aspect is not enough to carry sex and sexual desire through time. You need the emotional component. Like openness and actually being vulnerable with each other and without that, again couple, see diminishing returns and they start to question their attraction. “Well, maybe we’re just not that attracted to each other anymore.” But that actually isn’t true. Because again, there isn’t space for that vulnerability.   Sundae: So it’s kind of sounds like you’re talking about connection and vulnerability is a way to go beyond our primal physical needs.    Irene: Absolutely. Absolutely.    Sundae: That like, “I physically, haven’t had sex in x amount of time. Now, my body wants to have sex,” versus, “We haven’t had sex in a while, and we need to infuse vulnerability and connection to almost create desire before that physical level is met.” If that makes sense.    Irene: Absolutely. You put it beautifully. It’s the difference between, “I,” and the biological urges and, “We,” as in sex as the connective element in a couple. And so in friction sex, it’s all based on “I” and “me” and my urges and my desire for my partner. And the “we” part is part of actually the third type of sex which is Connection Sex, which is really the one that’s sustainable and that gets created over time.    And so this is why friction sex and then the next type of sex that I’m about to share, they naturally die out. They naturally have a shelf life that doesn’t make them sustainable    Sundae: And it’s actually the sex, it’s not about them. It’s about you.    Irene: Exactly.    Sundae: I’m ovulating or I haven’t had sex in two weeks. So, friction sex is actually about you and not about the relationship or the partnership.    Irene: Exactly. It’s even when you desire your partner, it’s really about you. I have such a strong desire. I need to get this desire out or get it fulfilled.    Sundae: Right.    Irene: Yeah. So there’s a lot of ion at this stage. So don’t get me wrong. It can be incredibly pleasurable. It can be really fun and you can feel very close to a partner because wow, you’re having these really ionate fun experiences together. But without the connecting piece, they start to die out. And couples will start to look for toys or new positions. Try to do really crazy stuff like hanging off ceilings or twisting themselves into pretzels, all of that. They try to get back that ion, but that’s not a substitute for it. It’s gone because again, it’s driven by hormones and it’s driven by these biological urges. Okay, so that’s friction sex.    And a lot of couples will break up at the end of the stage because again, they just make it all about sexual attraction instead of understanding that the connection is missing. But the next type of sex is what happens when couples fall in love, so they may go from friction sex to falling in love without friction sex completely dying out.    And the next stage is what I call; Validation Sex and this is actually also driven by biology. But in this case, the biology of love, so we start to develop feelings for each other. We start to care for each other and there’s a lot of ion that comes out of that too. Now you are receiving and giving sex to a partner as a sign of love and care and maybe even commitment. So it can be a very again ionate, kind of warm-encoming kind of sex. You feel like you’re wrapped in this warm blanket when it happens. It’s kind of the quintessential making love to each other. Super powerful, super ionate. But the flip side is that two things:    When we are in love with each other, we get into attachment patterns. And attachment patterns, I can spend hours on that but I’ll summarize. Attachment patterns is what we’ve developed with our parents, with our caretakers. And these attachment patterns are about attachment to those who we depend on and whom we love and receive love from. So we start to repeat the same patterns that we grew up with. And we end up falling into patterns where we tie attachment and signs of attachment to sex. So what that looks like is if our partner wants us, that means we’re being validated, we are enough for them. We are amazing for them. We are lovable. We are deserving and desirable and all these amazing things.   But the thing is that over time, there are going to be more and more reasons when your partner doesn’t want to have sex with you. They’re exhausted. They just had a baby. There’s work stress. They’re sick. Or they just don’t want to. Maybe they really want to focus on something else in that moment when you want to have sex with them. And what happens is that we start to equate, “No,” with, “I’m not enough. I’m not desirable. I’m not worthy,” and all these things. So this is what in short attachment patterns look like or how they play out. And so we tie sex to validation. And whenever there is a demand placed on sex –   Sundae: It’s about skill? *laughter*   Irene: Thank you. It is about skill.   Sundae: Right? So I have to I know we could spend this entire time talking about attachment styles and sex but I’m curious, how does that work if you have a different attachment style? If someone has a secure attachment. The other person is dismissive-avoidant or what is the other one?   Irene: It’s avoidant or anxious.   Sundae: Or anxious. Exactly. Because people come back come into their relationship with backgrounds of trauma and different attachment. How does that play out when you have a different attachment style in lovemaking?   Irene: Well, we pretty much all have a different attachment style because there’s virtually no one in the world who has secure attachment, 100. Plus attachment, there’s a primary type, but it also switches because it’s in relationship to the other person. So I would not necessarily think about, “Well, I’m a different type from my partner,” as much as we want to think about what in the relationship creates secure attachment or secure relating? So we’re never going to rewire our attachment fully. When we’re stressed we default back into it. But what we can do is we create a relationship where it’s safe to open up. It’s safe to say, “No.” It’s safe to ask for what you want. And with that, we create a securely relating relationship. We’re relating in a secure way. Even if we fall back into our primal, attachment patterns.   Sundae: This may be a cliche. It might be a gender stereotype. Or a biological assigned sex stereotype, this idea of you need a connection to have sex or you need sex to feel a connection. For me, it’s like a chicken or the egg situation. If you’re not feeling connected, you might not be motivated to have sex, but having sex will actually help you feel connected.   So, how do you solve that chicken or egg problem? Actually, that’s a “how” question, we have to wait for part two for that. But maybe you can speak about the biology behind that with connection and sex.    Irene: Sure. So this is certainly true for most men and most women. And it’s also very applicable to same-gender couples because usually we’re attracted to our opposites. That’s true in attachment patterns, and it’s true with the type of sexual desire that we have. So someone who needs connection first and then are able to go into the sexual place have; Responsive Sexual Desire. Their sexual desire responds to connection, it responds to stimulation, it responds to a slew of things preceding it. So it’s at the tail-end of these other things, including connection.    And someone who can just go into sexual activity, like, straight up, touching genitals, getting off, going into penetration usually have what’s called; Spontaneous Sexual Desire. Literally, they can spontaneously get ready for that and be ready for it physically. And also they can do it, they don’t need some kind of transition period. They can get naked. They can again touch genitals right there in the middle of the day without anything else preceding it.    Sundae: Sorry. I have like so many things I need to say right now. Because first of all, I love that there’s a name for that, right? Which legitimizes it. And there’s no judgment around that. Because I’ve heard so many things that can put judgment on that. So there’s two things are coming up. I , I think it was Oprah, she was talking about, “For women, foreplay is all day. And for men, it’s five minutes.” And of course, she was being playful but the idea of if you said something sly to me at dinner, oh hell no. That poor guy has no chance. But if you’re coming from a spontaneous sexual desire and the other person, what is the name that you called it the other way of warming up?    Irene: Responsive.   Sundae: Responsive. if one is responsive, the other one is spontaneous. You do really speak two different languages and one isn’t better than the other. They’re just very, very different operating systems.    Irene: Yes. There are very different operating systems, obviously, very different requirements. And again, I want to turn away from this approach of what my partner is a different type and therefore we’re not compatible because two people with responsive sexual desires are going to have a very hard time to getting started. They may just never get started at all. Or it’s usually the people who are opposite of us have something we don’t have, and it’s much easier for them than it is for us and we want it. Like, “Wow. You already have what I’m wishing I could have.” And so, that’s the attraction.    And we want to capitalize on that because there’s a lot there. A lot of benefit to each person. So I want to get turned away from using it as a handicap and look for the gifts. And this is what we’re going to spend the next episode on. But I want to just give a preview of this distinction between looking at again differences in biology, differences in attachment styles, differences in sexual desire. And differences in hormones, estrogen versus testosterone, and think about; How do you intentionally create sexual desire? Like I said, how do you capitalize and each other’s differences to actually get benefit from them. How do you create practices where both people get their needs met? Where the spontaneous desire person gets their sexual touch that’s not connected to anything else that just like goes right into it. And – and this is big, not a but, but an AND– how does the response of sexual desire person get their needs met so that they’re not being forced to just, “Okay, fine. Okay. I’m going to forego my needs. I’m going to close my eyes. I’m going to take a deep breath, and just do it to get it over with.”    Sundae: Which is so awful. Honestly, when I think about the historical context of women being forced into sex, it triggers something that has nothing to do with a relationship. This is the unfortunate piece about this when it’s an intimate trusting relationship. It can trigger historical trauma.   Irene: Absolutely.    Sundae: And that is why it’s so important, I think to have these conversations because then the person can say, this isn’t about historical something and the partner can feel validated. “That’s not what I’m trying to do,” right? That’s so complex. And this is like, when you look at sex, you look at Geopolitics, right? Everything is so connected.    Irene: Absolutely. And there’s also naturally so much anger that comes up. Because you’re being forced to do something that women have been forced to do for thousands and thousands of years –    Sundae: But it’s not about the partner trying to force, right? That’s the whole thing.    Irene: Exactly. Yeah. We just bring all of that trauma in from generations and generations behind us. And so, this is, again, this is where it’s really important to distinguish all these things. Distinguish them from also our partners and they are also bringing their trauma and then start to step back and start to think about this intentionally. And that’s where that third type of sex. I mentioned comes in where Friction Sex and Validation Sex naturally die out because really, they’re biologically based, they’re kind of done almost like with momentum because your relationship is making you do it. It’s just evolving on its own.    And with Connection Sex, you become intentional. Like I said, you separate these things and you start to understand yourself, you start to understand your partner, and you start to design intentional practices that would serve each and both of you. And that’s the kind of sex that is sustainable that survives and actually thrives with the evolution of your relationship and all the different transitions and transformations that you go through, from young love to having children, to raising children, to middle age to empty, nests, to anything and everything that shows up, to elderly parents, to death, to loss. All these things, is that when you are intentional about your relationship and you put in the effort, and again, the intentionality like the looking at it and not just doing things by default, then it starts to serve you. Then it starts to be this thing that lubricates your life.    Sundae: *laughter* I’ve been waiting for the references. Honestly, as soon as you said the word. Yeah, I won’t even go there. I’m going to make some really dirty jokes right now, I digress. But yes, thank you for making a reference because I’ve been dying the whole time.    Irene: Yeah, always gotta squeeze that one in.    Sundae: *laughter*. Listen, so there’s so much of the HOW I want to talk about but we’re going to talk about that more in episode 2. This is really helping clarify the WHAT. Responsive versus spontaneous, friction sex, validation sex, connection sex. Can you tell us a little bit more about biologically what’s going on? And I’m going to take a heterosexual lens for a second of the male orgasm versus a female orgasm. How is that different? Because when you think about, even if you’re attempting to have connection sex, there are biological differences at play.    Irene: Yes, there absolutely are. And in of basics, to the difference between men and women, I’ll follow the heterosexual twist, is that men peak in the mornings, their sexual desire peaks in the mornings. And women’s sexual desire peaks at ovulation. So you have a daily cycle and you have a monthly cycle.    Sundae: *laughter* That is so cruel.    Irene: Yes. So from the biology perspective, there are differences, just straight-up sexual desire. And generally, speaking for men, they need just a couple of minutes of stimulation to be able to orgasm. So their sexual curve is not even a curve. It’s a very steep linear run up to orgasm. And then a drop down into the refractory period, where they need to take a nap.    And so their access to orgasm is much easier, much faster. The biology allows for that, their body again, they can get, on average, they can get hard just within anything from 20 seconds to 2 minutes and be ready to either have penetration and have orgasm or to have some kind of hand or oral stimulation and have an orgasm.    But it’s very different from women again at a biological level because our cycles does that are designed to peak monthly. We are designed to actually have build up to orgasm. Now, a lot of women will not resonate with this and say, “Well it just takes me three minutes to orgasm too,” and here I want to differentiate two types of orgasms. So one is the kind of the traditional type of orgasm that we know which comes from tension, built up tension. It could be tension from life stress, anxiety. It could certainly be sexual tension. And in the way to release that tension is through friction, through stimulating the clitoris, and basically submitting it into an orgasm. Stimulating and stimulating until it’s overstimulated and then it releases into an orgasm. And that’s a powerful way to release that tension. But a lot of women will also report that they actually feel empty afterwards rather than filled up. They feel lethargic and not particularly happy. Even though the tension was released, it didn’t actually leave them particularly filled up.    And so this is where the second type of orgasm comes in, which is what I call an overflow orgasm, where you build up your energy, you build up and build up and build up from a flow of stimulation. It’s connection and play and certainly physical stimulation, its central stimulation. It’s it has pauses and it has brakes and it has steep climbs, and then downs and peaks and valleys. It seems you’re on a journey.   Sundae: Okay, I have to pause. That sounds amazing. Yeah, people don’t have time for this all the time. What do we do about the time factor? *laughter*   Irene: I know I’m teasing here because the big answer will come in the next episode. So this is part of that buildup, right?    Sundae: But how long does this go on for? What do we do biologically? How long can we allow this to go on? The pauses and the brakes and the climbs and all this overflow? What are we talking about here?    Irene: Well, what I’m talking about is every day, having some kind of emotional connection, physical connection, not necessarily sexual but touching, being naked with each other, dancing, having the body activated of the woman. And then, ideally, one time a week, having a three to four hour sex date.   Sundae: *laughter*   Irene: Where you do not rush anywhere. The tension is on you and your body and you let this cup get fuller and fuller and fuller and overflow. I know, and this is the thing, this is unrealistic in the lives that we lead, the way would lead them today.    Sundae: And also just from a concept, right? We were not taught that this is a thing.    Irene: Exactly. Right.    Sundae: To be honest. I’m gonna be really transparent here in this, what you and I talked about in kind of our pre-call. There is also something inherent of like sex needs or sexual needs to lead to orgasm. If you’re naked next to a woman that you have a relationship with how would it not lead to an orgasm? Like, this idea of it’s just it’s reimagining what being sexual with each other could be.    Irene: Exactly. Yeah. And there’s a historical reason too of why most women don’t know about this. We’ve never ever tried this and it doesn’t exist in most people’s lives, and that’s because, for thousands and thousands of years, men have led sex and sexual experiences. And so men are not automatically preconditioned to be sensual. Again, they have so much sexual tension in their bodies, which peak in the mornings. They want to release it, so to build up sexual energy is not really necessary for them. They just want to release. They just want to have that quick orgasm. So they lead orgasm in heterosexual relationships as opposed to sensuality and filling up with sexual energy. Connection for most men, they get connection after having sex, after expressing that spontaneous sexual desire.    Sundae: Before the hormones kick in and they fall asleep? Like in those two minutes?   Irene: Well, maybe not even then. Yes, there’s that too. So, the right connection doesn’t happen. They’re not leading with that. There are not leading with expanded orgasm, which is when I said overflowing orgasm, that’s what I mean. A full body. Your whole body shaking with pleasure. Your whole nervous system resetting. They can’t experience that if they’re just getting off for a few seconds. And so when men are leading our sexual experiences, we’ll get three minutes of foreplay, two minutes of penetration, orgasm, falling asleep. Okay, you’re done. And then go on with life, which does not, not only serve women because it feels shitty, but that it also makes our sexual desire die out because who wants more of that?   Sundae: But it’s like who decided that that sex ends with the male orgasm? Where was that meeting? Who had that meeting?   Irene: Exactly who sent that memo out? Yeah.    Sundae: So, how do we? Yeah, that’s what, yeah. I have so many questions right now. And can you tell me about the percentage? How did what does it look like? I know I’ve read statistics about the percentage of men who have orgasms in sex versus women. It’s like much much more men in sex with orgasm versus women. Do you know the stats on that?    Irene: Yes, it’s something around 80% of the time that men have sex, they have an orgasm. And it’s something between 40 to 50 percent for women in heterosexual relationships. It goes up to 60, 70 percent in same-sex/lesbian relationships. So kind of the data points to the variable between these two, which is sex with women vs. sex with men.    Sundae: And I think it’s a paradigm that we just don’t talk about. Even the idea of penetration is very male-centric, right? This is my joke. This was me taking a feminist class in college where we talked about vaginal engulfment, why is it called penetration?    Irene: Well, this is why I’m going to differ from a lot of other sex therapist and sex coaches, that there is this slant of well penetration is male focused and that is very true when – and this is true for actually most women having sex in 2022 in the world, is the man gets off, but the woman gets nothing and that’s because her body is actually not aroused to the levels where she can have something happened with inside of her. So it takes the the scenario that I painted before, so daily sexual and physical connection, plus these extended sexual sessions for her arousal levels to be so high so that she can actually have a vaginal orgasm and or a cervical orgasm, which is a very deep deeply seated orgasm that creates a full body experience.  Without that women can last three minutes, five minutes without pain and then it just starts to rub, like it starts to go back to friction. And so for most women, it is true. Why have that? What’s the point?    Sundae:  It is so sad, but I think about there’s this huge spectrum of like painful sex, and like heaven-sent sex. It is a huge spectrum and it feels like we’re only playing the piano on one side of the keyboard.   Irene: Or I think of it too is like, we’re playing with breadcrumbs. We’re choosing, “Which breadcrumb do I want? Do I want a breadcrumb from a cake? Or do I want a breadcrumb from a savory bread.” But we’re choosing breadcrumbs. But yes, there’s this whole cake that’s available to us. And when we focus on a first understanding women’s libido and women’s sexuality, and then we intentionally design our lives to that, we can have not only ecstatic experiences. That’s fun of course and not just fun. For me, those experiences were meeting God through sex, like being transported into a realm where I did not care if I had a body, I didn’t even know I had a body anymore. I was in this other space of timelessness and weightlessness and pure ecstasy. And wait, I lost my train of thought because I got transported there.    Sundae: You should have seen my face while you’re talking about it. That sounds pretty good. *laughter*   Irene:  Seriously, what was I talking about before. I’m getting red here. *laughter*   Sundae:  We were talking about the spectrum of what you can have. For me, this what I meant about paradigm shifting. If we were having conversations, this is also part of why I do my intergenerational women stuff. It’s like if we were having conversations early on about the whole spectrum of what’s possible. And even men, this is not against man. This is not slamming them. It’s not stereotyping. It’s just saying we have all drunk the Kool-Aid, and the savvy men who are out there learning about women’s bodies and asking their partners about women’s bodies are the ones who are are also benefiting and discovering. So I, this is not like a –    Irene: Not male-bashing.   Sundae: Absolutely not.  But it’s about why don’t we have these conversations earlier and more openly? And because this is a paradigm shift for a lot of people, I think.    Irene: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s also what I wanted to say when I digressed, is that there is the ecstatic part, but it’s also that there’s so many health benefits from this for women, physical, physiological and also emotional, because when you can go to that space, you come out reset, the nervous system, resets when you can go into such high levels of arousal. Your body feels rested, you might have your own refractory period or you need to rest, but you come out refreshed and refilled and it does wonders to our emotional state. So many couples report that not only is their relationship easier, and the relating is easier, but things don’t bother them anymore. They’re not annoyed. Everything’s just easier. And my own experience is that after ecstatic sex, I’m unstoppable, that nothing fazes me. That there is this power that comes on the inside where I am confident and I am again, unstoppable. Nothing will get in the way. Everything is solvable. That’s a Marie Forleo quote, “Everything is figureoutable.” It comes from this inner confidence and a full cup, a sexually full cup where again, there’s so much emotional and physiological benefit from that. We need it. It’s a nutrient that we as women need and that we get to miss out on when we pick breadcrumbs.     Sundae: Right? And this is not, like we were saying before, it’s not because someone is being bad. It’s more, we also need to empower ourselves and use our voice and do our research, and bring that to the conversation. I think it’s fascinating. Right now, I’m talking about these wild times that we’re living through and what I’m saying is we need to go to completely new solutions for old problems. And when I hear you talk about the physical impact, the emotional impact, the relational impact, that this isn’t a new way to create resilience and connection, and talk therapy is great, date night is great. But there are other ways to to transform your own self confidence and energy and relationship. It sounds fascinating.    Irene: Yeah, and two quick things about that. One is using our voice to do that. But even before that is committing to that. Because one of the things that I did for myself and I teach my clients is that, it’s about commitment to living on that level, committing to yourself that this is really important and that you’re not going to accept breadcrumbs anymore. And not to do it out of spite or out of anger. But just this deep commitment to, “This is how I want to live. I have X years left, and this is how I want to spend them. And this is what my partner deserves, as well.”    Sundae: Yeah.   Irene: And this is what my kids deserve, because I’m a different person when I have that. And when we commit to that, then it’s ing your voice. And, you know, this is where women, we’ve colluded with men to set them up for failure by faking it, by pretending, “No, no, everything’s fine. You just keep doing what you’re doing,” while we’re rolling our eyes and and resenting what he’s doing. And again faking is just provoking and promoting this, prolonging this ignorance around this.    Sundae: No, it’s awful and it sets men up to such an impossible situation. Right? When within a loving partnership, they do want to please, that feels amazing to also give sexual pleasure. So what you are setting someone up to fail.    You mentioned finite years left and I want to talk about sex and aging. And I know we don’t have a ton of time left but I was recently listening to, this is one of my favorite books right now: This Chair Rocks.   She talks about aging and she really transformed – Ashton Applewhite. She transformed the way I thought about sex and aging, she said that it is viable to have a healthy sex life into your mid 70s or mid 80s, and I was like, “Well, that sounds great. I can’t wait.”    Irene: Yeah, absolutely.    Sundae: So what does it take? I also think it’s a paradigm shift that if you grew up in a household where you watched your parents become roommates, and stop being lovers, you also might not even come to the idea to have sex into your 80s.    Irene: Absolutely and again, it’s the difference of thinking about sex and sexual desire from a biological perspective versus this intentional conscious connection perspective. And so biologically, of course, your body and sex that you’re having is going to be different at 70 than when you were 17. Your body changes. Your pace changes. A lot of things.    Sundae: You could break a hip.    Irene: Exactly. So, of course things change and again sexual desire changes for women, it can drastically change with menopause where their sexual urges disappear and or for some women, they appear like crazy, and they become so excited for sex that they never had that before. So the the range is huge. The span is huge.    But the point is, we don’t want to rely purely on the biology. And when we think about connection and sensuality and thinking of orgasm as the building of sexual energy than just releasing it, you can have sex until whatever, 115, because it will shift and change with who you are. But sexual connection, to say that we cannot have sexual connection when we are elderly is to say that we cannot feel in our bodies and that’s not true. You can feel in your body for however long you are alive because that’s what aliveness is. You feel aliveness in your body. And if you know how to cultivate it you have until the last days whenever they are    Sundae: To your last breath. That’s gorgeous. Oh my gosh, there’s so much more to talk about. We gotta wrap up this episode. Wow, this is exciting. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to take questions from the audience as well. So if you’re listening to this episode and you want to ask an anonymous question, we will put in a TypeForm where you can anonymously post your question that I will bring into part two of this episode. Part two is also going to be where we shift from the WHAT to the HOW. Like, how do we turn things around or how do we light things up? So this has been amazing. I cannot wait until our next session. In the meantime, where can people find you?    Irene: My website is my name irenefehr.com and there’s lots of free resources such as the free video series called: How To Want Sex Again. There are hundreds of blog posts. And of course, you can find information to reach out to me there as well. irenefehr.com.   Sundae:I can’t wait, we will put in the show notes. It’s been amazing. Thank you so much. I can’t wait till part two. Everyone, I mean, hello, basically salivating during this entire episode. This is such fun. And so impactful in of what could be different and what could be better, not just personally, for someone’s relationship, but for the couple and also from a gender equality perspective, I think it’s really cool. And the good news is that everybody will benefit.    You’ve been listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. I will leave you with the words from Joy McMillan: “Sexual energy is just that, it’s energy. And where we choose to expend that energy makes all the difference in the world.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 281: Sex & Connection – Pt 1 with Irene Fehr appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

E = mc2. It doesn’t matter if you’re in Wellington, New Zealand, or in Nuuk, Greenland — energy will continue to equal mass times the speed of light squared. Similarly, the chemical composition of sodium is unchanged whether you’re in Paris, , or in Poughkeepsie, USA. That’s because science is international. It’s the ultimate equalizer because it has no borders, religion, culture, or language. So in our viciously polarized world, imagine what can happen if we use something that everyone can agree on to serve as a chain reaction for peace. It’s an honor to welcome chemist, educator, and humanitarian Dr. Zafra Lerman, whose achievements will leave you starstruck. Highlights of her accolades include the Presidential Award from US President Clinton and multiple Nobel Peace Prize nominations. Dr. Lerman has successfully prevented executions, released prisoners from jail, and brought dissidents to freedom. But perhaps most impressively, she heads the Malta Conference Foundation, which promotes peace by bringing scientists from otherwise hostile countries to collaborate together. Widowed just before the pandemic, Dr. Lerman s us today to tell her story of triumph, heartbreak, loneliness, and hope. She also explains her ultimate mission, which is to fight for human rights, make science more accessible, and create peace in the Middle East. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: You can’t hate who you love Explaining science through booze & salad Fighting for the betterment of humankind Using connections to eliminate red tape Not being okay with being alone Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: Want to experience my proven ATT method on turbo speed? Find private coaching that fits you right here in my Ambition VIP Series. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC American Chemical Society (ACS) Malta Conferences Foundation – YouTube Malta Conferences Foundation – Website Lerman Institute for the Advancement of Science Student Projects – YouTube American Association for the Advancement of Studies Nobel Peace Prize José Vasconcelos World Award of Education   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: Malta X Anniversary and COVID-19 A Bridge to Peace Congressional Record: Recognizing the Importance of the Malta Conferences       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 10:00 am in New York, 4:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 9:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   When thinking of today’s guest, this quote came to mind from Margaret Mead, “Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has.” Her story is inspiring. The legacy she is creating is jaw-dropping. And the hope she offers is what I think we need right now, especially when you put it into context Jamais Cascio’s work on the BANI world we’re currently living in; Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, and Incomprehensible. We need unique approaches to enduring problems and our guest today is deeply committed to helping achieve that and has been for decades. I would like to welcome Dr. Zafra Lerman to IN TRANSIT. Welcome Dr. Lerman.    Zafra: Thank you very much for having me.    Sundae: It’s really a huge pleasure. And there are many people who probably already know your work. But for those who are unfamiliar, I’m going to quickly introduce you. Dr. Zafra Lerman is an American Israeli chemist, educator, and humanitarian. She’s the president of the Malta Conference Foundation, which aims to promote peace via scientific diplomacy. She’s been successful in preventing executions, releasing prisoners from jail, and bringing dissidents to freedom. In addition to that, she is the recipient of more awards than I have time to name for education and science diplomacy, including the 1999 Presidential Award from US President Clinton. 2015 Science Diplomacy award from the American Association for the Advancement of Studies and multiple Nobel Peace Prize nominations. But what we have in common is something that happened in South Africa. Do you want to share about the award you got in South Africa, Dr. Lerman?    Zafra: Oh sure. I got the José Vasconcelos World Award of Education from the World Cultural Council. The World Cultural Council have three awards. They have their Albert Einstein for science. They have the Leonardo da Vinci for art, and they have the José Vasconcelos for education. I got it for combining science and art and because every year it’s in another country. When I got the mail note that I am receiving the award, I just prayed that it would be anywhere, but not in the US. I was so lucky that the award was given in South Africa and it was the first International award in the new democratic South Africa. So, it was an experience out of this world.    Sundae: I can only imagine. I know, not only do we have South Africa in common, but that you went to ETH in Zurich so there is a Swiss connection as well, which I find wonderful. So when I was looking to learn more about you, some of the things that struck me was in an acceptance speech from one of the awards that you received, you mentioned that your dream was to fight for human rights, and to make science more accessible, and to create peace in the Middle East. And the thing that struck me was you’ve actually spent decades of your life doing all of those things. So my question to you is can you help me understand, your life has truly been exceptional and your work is truly exceptional. Can you help us understand how you got to where you are today?    Zafra: Thank you very much for all the compliments. But yes, I came from a family that always fought for change and for the betterment of humankind, and it was instilled in me at a very very young age. I started my career like every scientist, you get Bachelor, Master, PhD in science. Then I had to go to the US. I got my PhD from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel in chemistry, and then I came for a postdoc to the US to Cornell University. And there, the professor I worked with was very involved in arms control, disarmament, human rights. And I got immediately involved with him on these issues.    I really was bothered by going to scientific meetings and seeing how homogeneous it is. No diversity at all. And I decided to go and teach the underprivileged, after being at Cornell, North Western, Weizmann, Switzerland, in Israel. I ed a interesting college that the president was very, very visionary. It was in Chicago at Columbia College. It’s very different now than it was when the president was Mike Alexandroff. They had  one day at the college with an open ission that anybody that wanted to go to college can go even if they did not do very well in high school. Especially in the arts, if they did not have a portfolio to show. And it was a very high percentage minority and he surrounded himself by people like him. So when he looked around and Columbia was accredited as a Liberal Arts College, and did not have any science. He looked around for a person that will be involved and I was controlling disarmament in human rights and he offered me just to come and build science from scratch. And when I saw the students there, first in registration, nobody ever ed, because they never had science. And probably most of the faculty never had science, or they did not encourage the students.    My first class was “Chemistry in Daily Life.” So the way I attracted them is by taking them to a bar across the street, letting them order  what they want and then asking, “What are these weird names?” Bloody Mary, Screwdriver, all that. And everybody said, “It’s this juice with alcohol.” Anyhow, the word alcohol repeated itself. Then I asked them, “What is alcohol?” Excited, “Something that makes you high.” “Oh,” I said, “Yes.” But then I showed them on the envelope, the structure and all that on a napkin, and they all got very involved in that. And even the whole bar became part of this.    And then in the bar there was a salad. So we ordered a salad with oil and vinegar. I asked them, “What is vinegar?” And explain to them that it’s acetic acid. Then, I showed them how alcohol can combine with acetic acid and the product that is called ester can be used sometimes for nail polish remover. Oh they were shocked that they just formed the nail polish remover in their stomach. And I said something called catalytic gave me opportunity and at the end of that, I said, “The semester is 15 weeks. You already had the first week of chemistry. You have only 14 more to go for my class.”    But I learned from that, that if you teach in a way that is relevant to the students’ life, to the students’ interest instead of multiple questions test, my students showed their knowledge using the major so they could show the knowledge through art, music, drama. For example, theater students did a project that followed Romeo and Juliet and the love story between sodium and chlorine.    Sundae: *laughter* You’re kidding me!   Zafra: Table salt, table salt. Exactly like Romeo and Juliet, only they changed it to scientific . And then because when you put salt in water and it dissolves, the sodium and chlorine are separated, it’s a Shakespearean tragedy. So then in the theater the water came and after marriage between sodium and chlorine, they separated. And then they ended it by everybody standing with a plaque saying, “Learn to take every tragedy with a grain of…” and the cup of salt.   Sundae: Okay. Now I understand why you’ve won so many awards because I saw what you were doing, but I didn’t really understand until you just shared this story with me.   Zafra:  I don’t have it in front of me now because my former students just put these projects on YouTube so everyone can see it. I’ll send it to you by email and you will be able to share it. There is another one on the Bondfather that follows The Godfather, chemical bonds. There is a Star Wars one that is exactly like Star Wars but this is on the depletion of the ozone layer. A music student wrote a song. I have plenty of ozone for Fiddler on the Roof. I have plenty of laughing.    Sundae: So now I see why this is so inclusive, right? Because people can draw from something that’s culturally familiar or get engaged with the other side of their brain and make it happen. So we could spend the entire time talking about that but what actually caught my attention as an interculturalist, is what you do with your conference in Malta. You call it “scientific diplomacy.” And from an intercultural perspective, we say that isn’t enough. You need to have a common goal and a power equalizer. And this is exactly what you’ve done in Malta. Can you share a little bit about the conference, scientific diplomacy, and what it’s really about?    Zafra: Okay, it’s titled really Frontier of Science, Innovation, Research, and Education, in the Middle East, a Bridge to Peace. And the idea behind it, by the way, this November will have a big anniversary celebrating the 10th Malta conference. When I came up with this idea, everybody thought that I’m completely crazy because the idea was first to involve all the Middle East countries, scientists from all the Middle East countries. Not just Israel and Palestine where the biggest conflict is. Later on other people realize that it’s a good idea. We were the first one and still the only one in the world that bring together under the same roof, for five days, scientists from all the 15 Middle Eastern countries plus now Morocco and Pakistan, they are not in the Middle East but they decide to and we are including them. You have Syria, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Palestine, all the countries are there, and always several Nobel Laureates. The number is by invitation only and five days that everybody stays in the same hotel, the quality always was the lead in my life. Everybody is equal, from the graduate student to the Nobel Prize, they all stay in the same hotel. They all eat all the meals together.    And then we have interactive workshops on issues that are important to the region and to the whole world. And it’s climate change, it’s water, it’s biological chemical and nuclear safety and security. And they work on these issues, everybody together and form collaborations in friendship that overcome the chasms of distrust and intolerance. At the end of the conference, you think it was a family reunion.   Sundae:  Right. Right.    Zafra: It’s hard saying goodbye to people. It’s just unbelievable. The relationships. Now, science, I always say science diplomacy can succeed where other forms of diplomacy fail, because science is international. It has no borders, religion, culture, or language. I always like to say that a scientist in Bethlehem, a chemist in Bethlehem Pennsylvania and a chemist in Bethlehem Palestine, can communicate with each other without knowing each other’s language.    Sundae: Yeah.    Zafra: We have a lot of collaboration on the issues of water, on science education for all making sure because I always said that we will have two societies in the future, that will not be divided by royalty, but will be divided but knowledge of science and technology. Therefore, we have to bring science education to all diverse groups. By the way, I adapted the Soweto school system when I was in South Africa and help them to adopt this method of teaching science. So I spent a lot of time with the kids in Soweto and for your audience that don’t know, it’s a place where two Nobel Peace Prize winners were born Mandela and Bishop Tutu. So this is a very special place.    Sundae: That’s amazing. When you’re speaking, I have tears in my eyes because I think what we have in common, is this true knowing that we can strip away all of that and find something – the humanity in each other, right? And if we do the work and while I’m very emotional right now because I do believe it’s possible. And I think right now it’s so hard because the polarized world right now that we’re living in is painful to see. And I know this isn’t the first time we’ve seen polarization on the planet. I’m not naïve to that but when I was watching your videos, and I was watching people come together, and those smiles and crossing gender boundaries, national boundaries, language boundaries, religious boundaries, all of that and seeing each other as humans. I wrote down, “You can’t hate who you love.” It’s impossible to hate someone as soon as you see the humanity in them or you see yourselves in them, in the other. How did you come to this idea? This is a brilliant – like a Trojan horse approach to work on peace.   Zafra: And I tell you, I’m a chemist so I’m a member in fellow of the American Chemical Society and I chaired the subcommittee on scientific freedom and human rights. I always say from its inception until it was dissolved in 2011, for 26 years. This committee worked very hard on human rights in the Soviet Union first. And then in China, Cuba, all the work and this is where other miracles happen, bringing people to freedom. But after September 11 in the US, where the Twin Towers were attacked, September 11 2001, I told my subcommittee that we have to pay attention to the Middle East. And I brought the idea as a matter of fact to the American Chemical Society and I said, “First we have to involve all of the Middle East.” Nobody ever took this approach, everybody just took Israel and Palestine, the Israelis and Palestinians, but this It’s not enough. We need stability in the whole area. So it’s still the only platform in the world being under one roof for five days.    So I suggested to have this conference in the Middle East, it was the height of the intifada being the uprising of the Palestinians, suicide bombs were going all over, and I just saw that as solution to the terrible situation. And scientists in most of the countries have a very, very special status in the society. And they have influence on the government too. Now science is not so innocent. Scientists have also done very, very bad things in the world including weapons of mass destruction. So governments really need scientists for good and for bad and this was my idea that therefore, they have a special status, that they will be able to influence a government. And this is when I came up with the idea I had in this conference, it was an American Chemical Society National Conference, I it till now in Orlando, Florida, I had it there because I took delegation to Cuba. This was the scientific freedom of our scientific freedom because we needed a license from the Treasury Department. But in this National Conference, I had Cuban scientists that I managed to get visas for and brought them there. And they were telling me that when I came up with my idea, they thought the bomb fell in the room because the sight is unbelievable.    You could hear people breathing and nobody said a word because it never even happened before, it never happened before and really, we were quite too worried before the first conference with, “Will everybody from all these countries come?” We need them to come. Will the Palestinian be able to arrive on time and go through all the checkpoints and all obstacles that they have? But there were a lot of lucky things that happen along the way. I don’t know how much time we have to talk. But let me just say, it’s not such an easy conference to pull.    The visa problem in this fractured world is really becoming hell. Becoming much more complicated than when we started. This is writing a book how every conference, at the end, how we get the visa. And they said, a matter of fact, even the stages of finishing this book and then it’s explained in detail what I personally had to go through, but it’s usually coincidence, connections.    Before the Malta conference, I happened to go to a lecture by Ehud Olmert that was the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel by that time. And he was giving a lecture to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. It was early in the morning, as I told you, I’m a night person, so I almost didn’t go but then I said, “Oh my God, what if everybody will be like me. I have to go.” But this was part of the success of Malta one because as he finished the talk I gave him the list of 10 Palestinians. And I said, “I want all of them to arrive, no problems with a smiling face.” When they arrived, all of them, they were smiling. And told the story, how somebody from Ehud Olmert’s office called them on a cellphone, one was in a grocery store, one was in the bank and said, “We have to help you to go smoothly to the conference Malta, but one condition, you have to come with a smile on your face.”    Sundae: *laughter* You have an amazing way with people. I see that you can move mountains. There was a phrase that you had in one of your talks that you’re looking to create a chain reaction for peace in the –    Zafra: A chain reaction to peace. A critical mass of scientists to create the chain reaction to peace. So for your audience that don’t understand the in order to have an atom bomb, you need critical mass for Uranium, for example, in order to have a chain reaction, that will cause the explosion. So I took these from mass destruction, I said, I want the critical mass of scientists to create the chain reaction for peace. So it’s built on the atom bomb.    Sundae: So I’m wondering, what are you thinking right now? When we look at the state of the world right now. 2022, at the tail end of the global pandemic, the new fresh war in Europe, and we know what’s been going on on the continent of Africa and elsewhere for years. How are you seeing the world now?    Zafra: I see the world in one of the worst stages that I can imagine because we talk a lot about Ukraine and Russia. We don’t talk about Yemen that the situation there is terrible, terrible. Children are just dying of starvation. The country is destroyed. Ethiopia is in a terrible situation, what’s going on there. And I was in a part of Ethiopia that was has been destroyed and it was a beautiful part. And now the Ukraine, you cannot even figure out what suddenly attacking and leveling off cities, killing people, killing children, killing innocent people. Just for time to have power? By the way. I was approached and thinking about doing a Malta style conference for scientists from Russia and the Ukraine, maybe from the scientific point of view, they will be able to solve it.    And I was in the Soviet Union working on human rights in the 80s when the situation there was terrible, terrible. And I know what it is. I had to take a crash course in Russian so I could go in middle of the night to make these events without having the KGB. And so I was there many times. I’ve continued to go into Russia. I was in Kiev and it’s beautiful city. I was there after Chernobyl by the way, incident of the power plant in Chernobyl. And maybe get a little bit of explanation for people that did not hear about Chernobyl, and they were washing the buildings with water, everything was radioactive, a beautiful city where my mother was born.   Sundae: So how do you keep hope? When you’ve seen everything you’ve seen, how do you keep hopeful?   Zafra: Let me tell you, it’s getting harder and harder to keep hope because I never ever thought that we will see a country just invading another country. We have not seen it for so long a time.   I understand that everybody’s afraid of a Third World War, but I don’t see how we will avoid it because we have to that in the Second World War, it was one person who wanted to conquer the world. So, I am very, very worried what is going on now in the world.   Sundae: Yeah, it’s hard. It’s hard.    Zafra: Yeah, very hard.    Sundae: And it is. And that’s the thing about, How do we move forward in times of polarization? And that’s when I look at what I’ve seen from your life’s work, that’s what you’ve tried to combat is polarization through science. And when I feel powerless or when I look at the situation and then I hear your story, it actually gives me hope because I think you’re obviously exceptional, not everybody makes an impact in communities like you do.    Zafra: Thank you.   Sundae: But you are also also human just like everybody else, right? And so if you can tap into what your heart is calling you to do and make a difference and take action, it does give me hope. But there’s something. I keep asking in the back of my mind is, you are a woman in science, back then? It’s hard enough to be a woman in science, now. How did that go? Was you being one of the few women in your field perhaps how you were able to create some of these unique ideas? Or was it just triple hard?   Zafra: First, I was already in high school, the only girl in my class. So from a very young age, I had to struggle with this phenomenon, when every girl as a teenager has her best girlfriends. My best girlfriends were all boys. I didn’t have girlfriends in my class. So I have to learn early enough to live in this world, but I when I was in ACS meeting, the American Chemical Society and I was sitting in the corridor and I had a badge, some men walked by and they said, “Are you a Chemist?” And I said, “Yes,” and they said, “You don’t look like one.” I said, “Thank you. I take it as a compliment.“   Sundae: *laughter* That’s what I mean. I think you have a way where you people just want to you, right? Because your ideas are amazing and your humor does help in hard situations. So if you don’t mind, we’ve talked a lot about the impact that you’ve made in the world. I’d love to return to a little bit more personal view right now. One of the things I am committed to is; Ambitious Transformation in Transition, and asking people who are successful about their transitions, transformation, and ambitions because often we only see the results of all the hard work, but we don’t get a glimpse of the human side of the person. So if you’ll humor me, I would love to hear from you; What transitions, whether they are global, health, family, or professional are you feeling right now?    Zafra: Yeah, transition is not new to me because I think you can hear that I don’t have an American accent. So in Texas, once they asked me, “Where are you from with that accent?” And I said, “I’m from Chicago.”    Sundae: *laughter*   Zafra: So for sure coming to the states really young, as a single mom with a child and in the world of science, they were a lot of obstacles. And no money because postdocs didn’t make enough money. So this was a very, very tough decision transition. And I had to struggle with that and managed to become successful in my career. I am now in the hardest transition I had in my life because I lost my husband just before the pandemic started. So not only that I lost him, suddenly, you are isolated. No friends. No family. And I am a person that cannot do anything alone. I’m never even could do my homework alone. I needed another child to sit there. I will not eat alone. Because eating for me is a social event.    And it’s so it’s a big struggle because I’m just cannot be alone and I am in a transition but it’s not doing very well. Because when all my life, as my mother said from the day I opened my eyes, I made their life so hard because I couldn’t be alone for one second. And good things never change from what she tells me that I never needed sleep, but needed always company. It’s exactly the same and it’s very, very tough. We traveled all over the world together. I was invited to lectures in a lot of places. His job was a very high position in the United States Agency of International Development. Now, I’m thinking I have to learn to travel alone and now invitations to Egypt to Morocco to Abu Dhabi. What do I get on a plane alone? How do you do it? And this is a very, very tough transition for me.    Sundae: I can imagine, and that’s what I call an external transformation. It was forced on you, suddenly your partner’s gone. And now you have to learn how to cope. So, when I think about this, I think about how can we shape our transformation? We can’t always control it.   What are you doing to shape this so it doesn’t take the best of you?    Zafra: Let me tell you, it’s a very interesting question because in addition to traveling the world, we had season tickets to the symphony, to the opera, the theater. What do I do? Go alone? So I have friends but first I knew it when my father ed away, my mother told me that all the couples that were such good friends, suddenly take a distance. And then the women that were divorced or widowed, you need to have people in the same interest in you and it’s not easy. So, how do I solve not going alone to the Opera, to the Symphony? I’m surrounded by former students of mine. Now, a lot of them are all there, and I work with graduate students from North Western and that helped me with the Malta conference. My husband was a lot of help with that. So I go with my students to the opera, to the symphony, they benefit from all that. I am not going alone. So many people told me they go alone. I cannot go alone. If I’m in a restaurant and I see a person sitting alone, I’m so impressed. I couldn’t. So I am surrounded by young people. It’s easier to tell them you want to go to the symphony    Sundae: They’re so lucky. I wish I was in town. I would invite myself to the symphony.   Zafra: Yes. Yes, you know it’s the Chicago Opera and Symphony. They are outstanding but they are not cheap.    Sundae: So you have to pay for two tickets. *laughter*   Zafra: Sometimes it’s more, if they have a partner, I take both of them. The only time I have dinner during the week is with former students or graduate students now, this is dealing with that. And it’s wonderful and it’s very nice to be surrounded by young ambitious students. It’s wonderful, but there are periods that are tough. It’s at night when you don’t have anyone to say, “Good night,” and in the morning when you don’t have anybody to say, “Good morning.” It’s tough in the morning, worse than the evening.    Sundae: Thank you for sharing that.   Zafra: The worst. The worst.   Sundae:  I appreciate hearing that. And this is the thing, I’m all about straight talk and the full experience of people’s lives. And there are people who are surrounded by their loved ones and are struggling and to have lost someone at the same time, it’s almost too much to bear and it’s beautiful to hear how you are nurturing your intergenerational relationships, even when it’s hard. So I don’t even know, for someone like you and the life that you’ve lived, I have this idea about ambition and my concept of ambition is it’s always in relationship to who we are and what our challenges are, and what our desires are. And it is disconnected from scope or scale, like what other people think. So for me being a very active person, its ambitious for me to do less. Or when I was so low parenting, after a terrorist attack in Burkina Faso and running my business, it was ambitious that my kids had clean underwear. So that’s an example of ambitious in context for an individual. What is ambitious for you right now?   Zafra: It’s being successful with the Malta conference and achieving peace. My biggest ambition is to be able, and I have to it that everybody heard about the Abraham Accord. But we took a conference in 2015, we had to Malta conference in Morocco, at that stage, we already negotiated relationship between Israel and Morocco, but you know what we do, you don’t find it in the newspaper. The less we make a noise up with it because we don’t do it for publicity. So we have successes as I said before, we had all the countries so the first collaboration between Israel and the UAE was unveiled by the Malta conference on Zoom.  So we have our share on all the changes you see. But we don’t work for publicity. Sometimes it’s better to work quietly. There is another rule from the Malta conference that the Americans were ready to kill me for, is no accompanying . You cannot bring everybody with you because we need the interaction and I will say, as chemists, we know that when we dilute the solution, the reaction is much slower. So we cannot dilute it. Oh my God was very hard to try to solve this concept. But then I solved it by saying, “Everything is equal. Hey, you want to bring your spouses? Pay for them. You will pay for the Palestinian spouses because we need these ones.”   Sundae: That’s beautiful. Any last words of wisdom for the listeners, not to put you on the spot. No pressure.   Zafra: Last words of advice, get involved, get involved without getting involved the world will just deteriorate, there are people there are human rights abuses now all over. If we don’t fight they will be forgotten. All the human rights people from the Soviet Union said that knowing that we are fighting for them, gave them the strength to survive. And if everybody can get involved, we can still make this world a better place for humankind.   Sundae: Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your wisdom. And for your time today, you’ve had me in tears, twice, already on the call. It means the world to me that you’ve taken the time to share this message with me, and with the audience. I’m listening. I hope you listeners are listening because you’ve seen so much and you’ve seen up close and personal what it means when human rights are violated. And you’ve seen what’s possible when people come together.    So thank you so much and thank you to everybody who has been listening today. This is IN TRANSIT with Sundae Schneider-Bean. I will leave you with the words of Mother Teresa: “I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 280: United (by Science) with Dr. Zafra Lerman appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

An unrelenting serenity chaser, Mark Twain famously confessed: “I’ve had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened.” Who else feels like they’re battling overcrowding in their head? Trauma from the past few years, uncertainty in the present, and concerns about the future are all jumbled up in a blender like a toxic worry smoothie. If we could project current mind streams onto a screen, would it look like scrolling one unsettling thought after another, and another? No wonder so many of us are struggling to make progress.  So how do we break the spiral to make room for ideas and goals? What can we do to level out?   I won’t sugarcoat it — my teeth were pretty messed up when I was a kid. Fortunately, my parents took me to the orthodontist and they put me in braces, and I mean headgear, the whole shebang. At the best of times, these braces (or brackets as they’re called in some countries) were uncomfortable and made me self-conscious. At the worst of times, they hurt and were downright embarrassing — bye, bye chicken wings and corn on the cob. But you know what these braces also did, albeit after many years of discomfort? They realigned my teeth. And once they were taken off, the discomfort ended while the positive results continued. So this week, I’ll use that analogy from my childhood to deploy the teachable moment we all need right now to get us back into alignment.  What You’ll Learn in this Episode: How humans avoid discomfort Accepting that fine-tuning never ends Gentle, consistent pressure in the right places When you can’t even articulate your plans Biting off too much or too little Listen to the Full Episode   Featured on the Show: Braces custom-fit for someone else’s teeth won’t work for you. That’s why my private coaching offers tailor-made solutions. Don’t delay your results by another moment. Grab a flexible program from my Ambition VIP Series and let’s create a just-for-you plan aligned with your 2022 goals. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub Expat Coach Coalition Ambition VIP Series Unbound by Kasia Urbaniak       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 08:00 am in New York, 2:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 7:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   You know that feeling when you’re scrolling through social media and you come upon a post and it starts like this, “I don’t know who needs to hear this but…” And it is exactly what you needed to hear that day. Today is going to be one of those days for some of you. I don’t know who needs to hear this, but I know, based on conversations I’ve had with my clients that it’s going to be quite a few of you.    So here it goes. First of all, I’m talking to those of you who are at a tough crossroads. You have something in front of you, but you’re scared to make a leap, and those of you who know what you want, but you feel overwhelmed and don’t know how to start. Or maybe you don’t even know where to start, but you know you can’t really stay stuck. And even some of you who are feeling pulled to make a business or a career change, even though everything is actually fine and you’re just struggling because you know you want to be in a different place. So if any of those sound like you, good, you are in the right place.    And today is going to be a short one. But I do think for those of you who are listening, it’s going to be exactly what you need to hear.    Are you ready for it? Here’s the advice. You need to get braces.    Yes, braces. I don’t know, maybe in other anglophone cultures they call them brackets, but let me explain. What are braces for? I’m wondering how many of you have had braces? I had braces years and years and years and years ago, but they lasted for like four years and I had all of the things like full brackets, the bands, and the headgear. It was really really sexy.    So what are braces for?   They are to correct overcrowding. Correct overcrowding in your head. So you can already see how this might apply to you. How many of you feel like your head is overcrowded with worries, with ideas, with dilemmas, with a future that hasn’t happened yet, with ideas from the past that you can’t change? Overcrowding. Braces are to correct overcrowding.    Braces are also for correcting overbites. All right. So I’m talking to all of you who are biting off more than you can chew.   Braces are to move what is in your head forward and into alignment. All those things you have in your head with an orthodontist, it’s the teeth. But for us, it’s our dreams, it’s our values, it’s our plans, it’s who we’re becoming. Moving what’s in her head forward in an alignment.    So you need to get braces so you can stop the overcrowding, correct the overbite, and move what’s in your head forward and in alignment. Doesn’t that sound amazing?    So we know in the real world, I had really messed up teeth. And I was really excited to stop the overcrowding, correct the overbite, and move that was what was precious to me, my teeth, in my head, in alignment, right? Why aren’t we as eager as an awkward teenager as I was to get my teeth moved? Why are we not embracing our own lives in the same way? Why aren’t we running toward alignment when we’ve got this overcrowding, over biting, and this need for alignment in our own lives?    If you, for example, were a parent or an auntie or uncle, or caretaker for a young person who had really obvious overcrowding, overbite, or need of alignment in their mouth, you would say, “Hey, if we can finance these braces, and we can find an expert, let’s go for it.” Right? You’d want to them so that they have less pain. They have easier biting. They have no long-term shifts that they have to work on, etc. But why would we someone on that level but not in our own lives? What’s going on in their own lives? Why don’t we want to put braces on our priorities on our dreams? On our goals? Harness those puppies and get them in alignment.    Why wouldn’t we do that? If it can do this amazing transformation like it did for my teeth. Honestly, I don’t want to promise this to you but there’s a part of me that wants to promise you. I will show you pictures of me and my teeth before and after braces because it’s a big laugh, because it was also the 80s which has a bonus effect of a really bad hair style.    In any case, if we can create that transformation, our own lives. For those of you who’ve had braces like me, why wouldn’t you do that for your own life? Why wouldn’t we want that same sort of transformation for us?    Okay, and here’s why. Let’s say you’re an adult, why wouldn’t you just run towards braces? Because it’s uncomfortable and creates discomfort. And it’s an investment in time and money. That’s why, you don’t do it unless you have to. Unless you know it’s what’s right for you. And that’s what’s going on, maybe with you and your life right now. I’m calling them life braces right now. But why wouldn’t you want to put on life braces to get that overcrowding, out of your head, change your overbite in of biting off, more than you can chew, and moving what’s in your head, your dreams, your hopes, your goals your values, and put them in alignment. Because we’re honestly human. And we want to avoid discomfort. We want to avoid investing time, energy, and money unless we can help it.    But the thing is just like braces, there is a short-term investment, but for a long-term result. And no one wants real braces, but they do want the results. So I want you to think about that. Are you hesitating in your own life to do that? And let’s look to how we get results with, teeth braces, to see what that would look like in your own life.    So to get results with an orthodontist, what do they do?    Level and Align. The first stage of orthodontics is to move your teeth so they’re side by side. In my work, with my clients. It’s about knowing where you want to go and aiming for alignment with your goals, your values, your plans. Whether that’s in your life, your business, or your health. So your first step, where you’re at, for those of you at the top of this episode who are thinking, “Yeah, that does sound like me. I am someone who is at a crossroads.” Or, “I am someone who’s got too much going on in her head and struggling to make progress.” Or, “I don’t know where to start.” If that sounded like you at the beginning; What can you do to level and align? What is your first step? Can you name your goals? Can you name your values? Have you articulated your plans? Are you giving yourself permission to even name those things?   Name those things and naming that leveling, in this case, is the very first step. So, even having permission to want. I know that a lot of women that I work with struggle with even itting that they have wants.   And Kasia Urbaniak in her book Unbound says, “We have no control over what we desire. That’s just how it goes. We have desire. It’s more, what do we do with that desire?” So giving ourselves permission to name that and to own that is the first step.    Level and Align. Align is where it gets interesting. Align is where like braces, braces work by exerting constant pressure on your teeth and jaws to change their position. But the question is for you; What is it that you need to do? What kind of pressure – and I do mean that in a positive way, could be an invitation to do things differently. It could be inspiration. It could be the way that you’ve changed the way you navigate things even in your own work or life. What are you doing constantly and consistently to put yourself under a gentle, loving ive, but constant pressure to keep moving forward? To keep making changes?    And for you, that might be to a group. Grab an ability partner. Hire an expert,. Sign up for the class. Get a coach. What is it that will help you get in alignment?    Is it to put post-It notes on your fridge, right? It depends on what goals you have, how big they are, how much pressure you need. And I mean that in a positive way. How much reminders and motivation and structure you need to make movement in your life.    So that’s the first step; Level and Align. And then an orthodontist, what do they do when someone has braces? They work on the Bite Issues. So, for us, in our lives, where do we need to correct any of our bite problems? Are we biting off too little? Are we staying small and not being courageous enough to take leaps in our lives? Or are we biting off more than we can chew and doing too much? Maybe too much for others and not enough for ourselves.    With our Bite Issues is to identify what our tendencies are. When are we biting off more than we can chew? When are we taking too tiny of nibbles out of our own projects? And what steps can you take to stay motivated so that what’s going on in your head isn’t the thing that’s stopping you?    So number one, Level and Align. Two is Correct Bite Issues. The third part is the fun part. If you really have leveled, you’ve named your goals, your plans, your values. You have created structures around you to put that pressure on, in the most loving, positive way to create alignment of those things. And then you’ve corrected those bite issues, making sure that you’re monitoring yourself, you’re not biting off more than you can chew, but you’re not nibbling too small towards what you really love.    All that’s left is Fine Tuning. Just like in the final months of braces, when you are getting treated for your braces, they do small adjustments so that everything is in the perfect position before they take off the braces or remove this structure. And that’s for you. Once you go through those first two steps. You can enjoy the fine tuning process. But you can’t get to fine tuning until you’ve done step one or two.    And the thing is, it is just a process. The good news is that when we think about what is between you and your goal, your dream business or the new professional direction, or the level of connection in your family, or the quality of health that you’re going for? Honestly, just like braces, the pressure is only periodic that when you spend a short period of time making the right tweaks and getting the right , that everything then becomes automated.   So, it’s just a band flow. So instead of thinking about the discomfort, which people usually do, when they’re facing a big change, the time investment or the money investment, think about the other side that you get results that last and that actually the pressure is only when you go in for adjustments and are shifting patterns. That these things do become automated over time.    I was just sharing that with my clients about straight talk, about real change in our lives. And how I when I first tried to make my health a priority, I ended up going for a run for 12 minutes and my lungs were burning. And I hated it. I hated it. I think I started to hate it at like five minutes. I think I looked at my timer at eight and I quit at 12, but that was just the beginning. The pressure was on at first, but then it got better over time. And now running is who I am. It’s what I need to do to give my best to everyone, in my day, in my week, in my life because it’s a given. I need to move my body. And that came from pressure on in of, “Okay, I’m gonna get out there. I’m gonna put my shoes on. I’m going to go for five minutes, eight minutes, 12 minutes. I’m gonna go for 12 minutes again.” Now of a sudden I’m like, “Hey that felt good. I’m going to go for 15,” right?    So this is a process. And it’s worth it. And just like with braces when you’re done, you get to let your hard work shine. On the other side of those efforts, of those adjustments, of the leveling and aligning, of correcting your bites, of the fine-tuning, those results are forever. Okay. ittedly with real braces. I see my teeth moving and maybe you need a little tweak here or there later but not compared to what you’ve invested already.   So I don’t know who needs to hear this today but for those who this really resonates with just get the braces, It’s temporary. It’s worth it. Start the degree. Do the counseling, Find a new job. Do the parenting course. Invest in the business. Higher the trainer. Get the running buddy. Whatever it is, do the damn thing and you’re gonna thank me for it. Just like I thank my parents for my braces. I would have loved to say no to that, but man, I’m thankful for that now.    But I know that some of us just need to nudge and today is my nudge. And there are so many things that we all are facing right now. Our own crossroads, our own overcrowded heads, our own overbites in our lives, right? Our own levels of fine tuning that we need. They are limitless because we are complex human beings. So I’m not going to say that there is a one-size-fits-all answer. But what I do know is that if you’re paying attention to the ways in which you want to align in your life and you’re courageous to say yes to taking the next step, that by being consistent and applying constant towards those goals, dreams, values, you are going to be on the other side. And you are going to be so happy that you are.   And I’m also not naive. I know for me, there are some things I can DIY it and it works. But there’s a lot of other things where I do much better when I’m guided by an expert or when I’ve got ability built in or a sparring partner to help me reduce the overcrowding in the head. To help me correct my own overbite, so to speak. And that is exactly what I’m here for and why I created my VIP Session Series to people with whatever ambitious goal, transition, or transformation you’re going through. So go ahead and check it out.    And by the way, for those of you who have expressed interest in Expat Coach Coalition, that’s exactly what my graduates have been saying that they were so happy that they took the leap and invested in themselves because now on the other side, they’ve got life-long strategies to them in their business, as they serve expats around the world. And I mentioned that specifically because I’ve had some strange email issues myself and my assistant, and some people have said they haven’t heard from me and I wanted to make sure I did a shout-out on the podcast.    If you have applied to Expat Coach Coalition and have not heard back, please check your promo folders because we have responded to each and every person individually as well as followed up after any consults we’ve done. So do be in touch because we want to talk to you. All right. I want to hear who needed to hear this today? Who needed to hear this? Tell me in an name email, tell me the DM or hop on social media and let me know. Who knows that where you are now and standing between there and where you want to be are braces? And those braces are really doing what you got to do, to level and align, correct your bite issues, and then some fine tuning. And that you know deep down it’s honestly, you’re making it a bigger deal than you need to because it is temporary. That process. We do the tweaks with the braces and the moving is temporary and you don’t have to do it alone. There are tools and structures that move you through that. And on the other side, we’re talking results that last.  All right. Thank you so much for being with me today in this unique episode of IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. Steady advice in an unsteady world. I will leave you with the words of leader, Max Depree: “We cannot become what we want by remaining what we are.” Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android).   The post 279: Bracing For Life appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

In vino veritas. A famous Latin expression that translates to: “in wine there’s truth.” Meaning that honesty comes out once alcohol lowers our inhibitions. Think of how good a philosopher/comedian/dancer/karaoke singer you are after just a few drinks. No wonder it’s also called “liquid courage.”  Now compare that fun, two-glasses-of-merlot-relaxed-with-your-friends version against the “you” on your website. Do you sound the same? Which one of you would attract your ideal client, repelling away ones you dread? Side note: Expat Coach Coalition helps solopreneurs find their true voice and untapped talents. Then, the program infuses with the courage to express themselves, alcohol not required (wink).  Get ready for the ultimate how-to-sundaebean.com secret share. Most entrepreneurs would agree that their business is less like an inanimate object you set-and-forget, and more like caring for a living, breathing, continuously evolving organism. This week — and for the first time ever discussed with the open public — I’ll reveal the sciencey side of operating a successful coaching business. I call this theory my Head-to-Toe Analysis — something I developed (and sharpened!) through a decade of experience. Today, hard-earned for me means easy for you. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Your big “why” When your face is unrecognizable Investing in the wrong relationships A business vs. an expensive hobby Runners’ legs Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: I have a soft spot for the latecomer. Make 2022 a year about victory, not about struggle. This is your LAST CALL for Expat Coach Coalition, so us right here. “You’ll get sisterhood, clarity, and practice. To anyone who’s considering ing, I say: Do it! This is a robust program from beginning to end, and you won’t regret it.” – Kim Adams, Family Preparedness Guru Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub Expat Coach Coalition The Steady Series Wisdom Fusion Project Tap Into Intergenerational Wisdom At Work Wisdom Fusion Town Hall Year of Transformation Ambition VIP Series   BONUS RESOURCE   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP275: Create a Sense of Steady EP266: The Constant Transition EP226: The Space Women Crave EP227: Intergenerational Wisdom With René Washington EP228: Intergenerational Wisdom With Marianne Talkovski EP229: Intergenerational Wisdom With Helene-Jane Groarke EP230: Intergenerational Wisdom ~ The Grand Finale         We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 07:00 am in New York, 11:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 6:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   So on Saturday, I was at a soccer match for one of my boys and of course, we have to get there early so they can warm up, and I brought my little camping chair and my journal and a pen to kill time until the match began.  All of a sudden, I was flooded with answers to the questions I’ve been holding about this summer. As you know, I’m in transition. We are leaving South Africa and will be relocating to Switzerland. But in between, I will be spending some time, if all goes well with my family, in the United States. So, lots of things going on. And the question is, how can I make the most of this transition and still meet the needs of my clients and serve my community?    Big questions and all the answers came flooding in and I thought, “Why is it that I’ve been carrying these questions with me for weeks and now suddenly in the South African sun, I have everything crystal clear in my mind?” Because these are unsteady times and we’re asking ourselves; How do we create a sense of steady even when we can’t predict things? And the answer is because I’d actually paused and gave myself some space to ask the right questions. And that’s what I’m trying to do for you today.    All of April if you were inside the IN TRANSIT Hub on Facebook, my community, you know that we have been working really hard to share with you, how you can create steady progress with proven results in these unsteady times. And if you recall in episode 275: Create a Sense of Steady, we talked about steady is constant in your purpose. Episode 277 was about New Game, New Rules because I talked about the BANI world we’re living in: Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, and Incomprehensible, So, how can we create steady progress and have proven results, when all of this is true? When things are unsteady, how do we remain constant in our purpose? Well, there are a lot of answers to that already inside the IN TRANSIT Hub. So, if you’re not already part of that community, go ahead to the show notes and us. And if you want to get all of these nine sessions for free, go ahead and sign up for The Steady Series, even though we concluded at the end of April, you’ll still get the round up for it because I really want to have these answers in your hands.   For the last few weeks, we’ve spoken about the big picture and we’ve talked about what is working for my clients so that you can apply it to your own life personally. But to be honest, we haven’t spent a ton of time talking about how you can create that steady for you professionally. Your life is in transit. from episode 266, Our lives are in constant transition, right? Everything IS shifting, maybe for you personally, it’s definitely shifting globally, economically, politically, but also this impacts us professionally. And when those things are true, they might even be impacting our own transformation. And in this episode, we’re going to create that space, the space that I was able to enjoy in the South African sun. So, for you today, so you can have that space, where you can listen, are there any internal, external, or performance led transformations that are going on in the background or under the radar for you? Just like the answers to my questions were there under the surface and didn’t come up until I created space for them. There might even be really important questions that you haven’t even asked yet, but should.    Okay. So what I’m going to do today is I’m going to help create that space for you. And the same time, you’re going to get a sneak peek into the exact topics and questions that I ask myself to run my own business, but I also teach inside Expat Coach Coalition so that you can make steady progress in these unsteady times.    All right. So what I’m going to do, it’s called a Head-to-Toe Analysis. This is a framework I created. And while it’s specifically for solopreneurs and been created exactly with expat coaches in mind, it will work well if you use it to focus on your own career. Let’s be honest, it even works for your life, but we’re going to stay focused on business today.   So, here you go. This is the first time publicly I am sharing with my whole audience Head-to-Toe Analysis for your business. And as I said, if you’re not a solopreneur, it could apply for your career. But keep this in mind, it’s a very, very basic structure. Of course, there’s much more underneath it that I go into in my work with my clients, but I wanted to give you a taste of it and give you a few starting questions to think about. And if you’re interested and you want to know more, of course just me. But let’s get started. Oh, by the way, I also have a bonus resource for you. So stick with me to the end. You’ll find out where you can get the bonus resource and why that’s important.   Alright, so let’s get started. We were looking Head-to-Toe Analysis. This is a framework for you to do a deep dive in your business right now and see what areas need more attention and where you’re doing just fine.    Head of your Business. The head of your business is; get in your head and ask the question, “Why?” What’s your big why?” Whether you’re at the very start of your business, you ask yourself, “Why do I want to do this? What am I doing this for?” But if you’re in the middle of your business, you have to ask yourself, “Hey, this is hard. Why is this all worth it?” So, those are important questions to ask yourself about the head of your business. And if you’ve been in business for a few years, you might want to ask yourself, “Does it still feel worth it?” I know it seems like kind of a contentious question to ask but it’s important to pause every once in a while and go, “Hey, this really feel like I am living the type of business I intentionally try to create?” Many times when I pause and I ask myself that same question and I say, “Uh. Not quite, it doesn’t feel exactly how I wanted.” So now the question is, “What has to change for things to feel even better what has to change for me to want to move forward and have it feel completely worth it.” Believe me. I’m heading up into my ninth year of business. And this is a question I get in my head, the head of my business, and I ask myself “Why?” That is important.    I don’t care if you’re in your seventh, eighth, ninth year of your business, I still use this as a guiding question to tweak. And if you followed my business for nine years, you can physically watch the transformations that has kicked off because I will keep adjusting things. And the beautiful part about being in the head of your business is that you will constantly be nurturing a business that answers your why? That is in of it feeling worth it, instead of just running the thing and not checking in with yourself on if it’s actually the alignment with what you really want. So get in the head of your business. Ask yourself; Why? What is your “Big Why?”     And you might say, “Sundae, I don’t know anymore. It’s been really freaking hard.” And if that is you, I get it, I understand. And that is okay. It’s important. And it will be an invitation for you to ask yourself, “Wait a minute. Why did I start this? What difference am I making?” And when things get hard for me, I always think about my clients like, “You know what? This month has been hard.” But I do think about my one client and her transformation or think about this other client and the impact, the work that they’re doing has impacted other people and that helps me get back to my “why.”    Okay, so that is from head to toe, that’s the very first part, is to get in the head of your business and start with those Why? questions, right? And if you’re brand new to business there are lots of other questions you can be asking, which is much more in the direction of market research, which is a separate conversation from today. We’re looking at keeping your business steady. Steady progress in unsteady times. We’re thinking bigger picture than market research. If you’re at the start of your business, but you always have to return to the question; “Why am I doing this? Why is it worth it to invest in my own business?”    Okay. So we’ve been in the head of your business. Now, let’s get into:   Face of your Business. I love talking with the face of your business because there was a huge eye-opener for me back in 2014. 2014, I was in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso, and a good friend of mine said to me, “Sundae,” she had known me for a year, “I feel like I gotta tell you something.” She goes, “I feel like you’ve been hiding,” and I was like, “What do you mean?” She goes, “You’re hiding behind your computer.” And I was kind of defensive. I’m like, “You know how hard I’m working behind this computer?” And she’s like, “Sundae, last night. We were out and all of your ideal clients were there and you weren’t there. You’re hiding your face.”    And I realized that the face of my business isn’t just online,  my website, my presence on social media. I was missing out on the in-person aspect of my business, and that’s easy to do when you’re a solopreneur because so much of our work is online, especially in the last two years. But because my wonderful friend gave me this truth bomb, which helped me realize actually even being out socially among people who are my crew could elevate the face of my business and lead to business. And what do you know? I took that advice to heart and when I got my face out there in person, I automatically got clients and I establish relationships with people that I’m still very, very close to today. So think about that for you, especially as we sort of lead out of the global pandemic in many areas, is it time to get your face out there in person? Ask yourself, are you showing your face where you need to? Are you in online summits? Are you telling other people that you’d be happy to have your face in their business as a podcast guest? Where can you be getting your face out there more in person and online, that will help fast track your business. 100%.    The other question around the face of your business, I want you to think about is, does it match you and your business NOW? A lot has changed, you’ve changed. So think about that as are you presenting yourself and your business to the world in a way that reflects how you’re showing up NOW. Because I know for me, I’m kind of a set it and forget it person. Put my website up and then I’ll do all the things and all of a sudden, three years later, I look back and I’m like, “Oh, I don’t even look like that anymore. I don’t even really talk like that anymore. Even with my clients, we don’t connect like that. Why haven’t I updated my face? I need a facelift.”    All right, there’s obviously more but that’s just a little taste to think about the face of your business.    The next part is the Voice of your Business. The voice of your business is something that I’m really ionate about because I am really allergic to people who are out there serving others are trying to serve others and then sound just like everybody else. It’s like you’re hiding your real voice. So think about the voice of your business like I have.    And I’m actually going to hold something in my hands right now, while I’m talking to you, and it’s a small little statue of a wolf, and I’ve talked about this into other podcasts before. But I reluctantly share that I had a dream about a wolf and it resulted in the clarity that I need to start my podcast. This was over five years ago. And the message was, “If you howl the pack will come.” If you have all the pack will come and I knew that’s what I need to do. I needed to put my voice out there and the right people would resonate. So I’m not talking about a physical channel, like a podcast. I’m talking about sharing what is really on your heart and mind. And if you’re a solopreneur and your work is connected to moving people’s lives, to touching people, to helping them buy a product or a service something that you believe in, they need to know what’s on your heart and mind because there are a lot of businesses out there and we are very discerning consumers, and the more that we have options, the more we want to have a personal connection in a value alignment with the business that we invest in.    And so you better show people who you are. I would say that to my kids, “Show me, don’t tell me.” so let people hear your real voice. And that means, don’t be shy to share what you really feel and what you really believe because you will repel the wrong people for your business and attract the right people for your business. It’s like, what are the things that you say to your buddies over a glass of wine that you haven’t yet dared to say publicly? Those are probably the things that will attract your clients. Okay, very similar to the face of your business. Ask yourself; Who could use your voice? Who is having an event, has a platform, or a community that could really benefit from hearing your voice? Your insight, your wisdom. Then you could utilize the voice of your business even more. Personally, I’ve had eight, nine years in the business, I wanted to do more and share more but didn’t have the container for it. So I ended up creating a container for the Wisdom Fusion Project.    If you my podcast on intergenerational wisdom starting from 225 to 230. It was a way for me to talk about the things that meant the most to me. And then it brought a community of amazing people to me and ended up resulting in the Wisdom Fusion Town Hall, and a Forbes article called Tap Into Intergenerational Wisdom At Work. It’s become an extension of the things that I love and a way that I want to serve. So who knows? It might just start out like Wisdom Fusion did with one idea and then it can catapult into a community and an impact on people’s lives that you couldn’t have expected.    All right, so we have talked about the head of your business, face of your business, and the voice of your business. Now, guess what? The Heart of your Business. This is important.    The heart of your business is about your values. And if I asked you right now, what are your values? Maybe if you’re someone who isn’t a business owner, but in your career, what are your core values that you align with? If you are a business owner or a want to be, what are your values that you are going to lean on when times are tough or to help you make tough decisions? That is important for the heart of your business. Can your clients or will your future clients be able to name your values? If not, then they are not loud enough, right? My values, I hope this doesn’t surprise anybody are growth, connection, and playfulness. If you hear that and you know my work, those should not be a surprise, those should be a no-brainer. And when you have those values, again, goes a little bit like the voice of your business where it repels the wrong people, and attracts the right people.    The other thing, you might want to think about is, if things have been wonky in your business, one of the best things you can do is actually love on other people. So who among your clients could use a little bit extra love right now in of attention for the challenge that they’re facing or maybe a surprise? Something where you could add value to your client’s life. That is a way to not only delight your client, but also feel great and reignite your why? Again going back to the head of your business of why you’re doing it to sort of get you back to the joy and pleasure of why you started this in the beginning.    The other thing you might want to think about is who would you love to build relationships with if you want to reignite the ion in your business, from you for your business? Maybe you aren’t in a relationship with the right people. Maybe you’re missing people that could be fun to partner with.    Okay, so we’ve gone from the heart, now guess what? We’re going down to the Legs of your Business.     The Legs of your Business is basically what you stand on as a business. This is the difference between having an expensive hobby and having a real business. The legs are what you stand on and sales is where that comes from. We need to sell to pay our bills and to pay ourselves and to invest in our clients.    And I’d like you to treat sales like runners’ legs. You need to use them. If you do not run regularly, you’re not going to be able to finish that 5K or that marathon. So if you always say to my clients, if you’re not selling, you’re not selling. So you have to actively use the legs of your business so that it will build strength in your business and that means bringing in revenue.    Believe me, I was the first person to forget this when started my business. I think I spent 12 months blogging, looking like a blogger and not someone who sold coaching services until I finally started actively telling people, “Hey, you could hire me, you can work with me.” So believe me, these are all mistakes I’ve done and I’ve learned the hard way and I’m ing them on to you so you don’t have to. The other thing about treating sales like runners’ legs is you have to adapt to the terrain. As I’ve mentioned in my last few podcast. We are in this BANI world; Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible, our terrain is constantly changing in this global dynamic. So we have to adapt and if you haven’t adapted with this changing context, you might want to think about it.    And I’ve had my own examples, where for example with Year of Transformation, I was selling Year of Transformation at a time where people didn’t even know what would happen in the next two weeks. And it was like, “Okay. I need to adapt to the terrain because it was working before is not what people need right now.” And that’s where my VIP series came up because people needed more options to work with. So, are you adapting your products and services to the terrain? Just ask yourself when you’re investing in the legs of your business; What can you do differently to bring in more sales that matches the terrain?    Okay. So that is the Legs of your Business. The next part is:   The Skeleton of your Business. And I call that the skeleton of the business because it’s like the bare bones. I think it’s kind of a dry part, but it’s the structures. It’s a systems. It’s legal stuff. But are those really in place? In one of my more recent podcast I talked about how structures are important for us to rely on now more than ever. So even though it’s not sexy. Are you invested in the right structures for your business? And that means not just professionally, with an assistant or how you pay your taxes. Whatever that might be. How you book a call.  But are you also structured in your energy and how you organize your day so that you can show up for your people? So the skeleton of your business is those structures and systems that we need to think about; Are they solid personally and professionally? Are your foundations solid? And if not already, what needs your attention most?    I know what I needed to put my attention on a couple years ago was around systems.   I needed to have my internal system much better aligned so that any assistant that came into my team would be able to pick up the work more quickly and run with it. And I knew I needed to do that. And I finally did that a few years ago because I was growing so fast my systems weren’t catching up. But maybe for you it’s finance. Maybe for you it’s your follow-up system. Whatever it is, think about the skeleton of your business.    Okay, and that leads me to the last part, head to toe of your business, is the Muscles of your Business. And this is an important one.    The Muscles of your Business is how well you take care of yourself. And I’ve talked about this in other podcasts, but your energy is your most valuable asset. How well are you taking care of YOU? How sustainable is your pace right now, given the current level of transition that you’re going through? And what has to change to better YOU, so you can your business? Those are important questions for the muscles of your business. I have a lot of podcasts for you, which will help you. And that is where I’m really excited to give you a Bonus Resource. You can check it out in the show notes. We’ve got a bonus resource that will go through every single area, the legs, the skeleton, the heart, etc. And then it’ll link you directly to other podcasts that will help you go further with each and every topic.    So there you go. This is a sneak peek behind what I call; The Science Of Operating A Healthy Coaching Business. I wanted to share that with you. For those of you who are a DIY’ers so do-it-yourselfers, you’ve got those important, reflective questions to go further and sort of reinvigorate health in your business to create more steady of purpose so that you can get proven results. We are in unsteady times, and it’s time for, if there’s a new game, we need new rules. And the new rules are pausing and taking stock of everything we’ve done in the past, in of where we’re at in our business, look at it with a fresh eyes, and see how we can replenish our ion, our clarity, and our energy, and our systems so that we can go forward. We know that this world is not steady, but we’re going to keep going anyway. And the thing is, for those of you who are living globally mobile lives, maybe coaches, or expat coaches, you know the world needs us now more than ever and this time, it’s important, we have an obligation to go inward and evaluate how we’re showing up in our business and is in alignment with us, so we can continue to move forward and serve others with their unsteady times,    So I’m celebrating you. If you’ve listened this far to the podcast, you’ve taken time to think about where you might need to update your business. Is it the head, is at the heart, is the face? We all need this at one point. I’m constantly asking these questions, to myself. And that’s probably why you see constant evolution in my business. Because these are the things that are guiding me forward. It’s helping me update how I interact and how I interact with myself and those that I care about, and the clients that I want to serve most. This is what you need to update how you’re moving forward for you to have progress. And for you to keep your resilience and move forward in optimism in unsteady times.    And I realize this is a lot. I just hammered you with a ton of questions. It was important for me to some critical basics for you. But if it feels like it’s gone too fast for you, you can re-listen to this or you could the transcript in the show notes and then sit with your answers. And of course, of course, if you’re an expat coach or an aspiring expat coach, someone who wants to work with those in globally mobile community, that’s exactly why I created Expat Coach Coalition. We spend half of our time talking about the tools to people in their own global transitions and the other half on head-to-toe in your business so that you can get yourself out there with a voice that’s authentic with strength in systems and practices. That change maybe ion or an expensive hobby into a real business. So if you haven’t already applied to Expat Coach Coalition, you’ve gotta hustle up because our deadline has ed, but I have a soft spot for the latecomers. I know there’s a few procrastinators out there. And if you’ve already held your call with me and you’re on the fence, do get back to me because I’d love to see if it’s the right fit for you and get you onboarded. We start May 16th, 2022.    All right, you’ve been listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. Steady advice in an unsteady world. I’ll leave you with the words from Professor Feynman, an American physicist: “Knowledge is having the right answers. Intelligence is asking the right questions. Wisdom is knowing when to ask the right questions.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 278: The Biology of Business appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..

It’s a global icebreaker. A fun-on-a-shoestring-budget staple. A rainy day saver. A homesickness reducer. A lockdown lifeline. A get-your-kids-to-put-away-their-phones failsafe. Hip hip hooray for family game night!   Even though the actual “games” may look different or are known under distinct names around the world, game night holds the same uniting effect everywhere you go.   Now, just because you’re good at chess doesn’t mean you’ll build an empire in Monopoly. And those prized poker tactics can prove as useless as a silent fire alarm when playing charades, right?   Each new game brings its own rules. But are there gamesmanship skills — like context and adaptivity — transferable to real life? (Yes.) And do those who live globally mobile lives develop an advantage? (Also, yes.)   Whether you like it or not, our global community has been permanently changed by the events of the last two years. And to win at a new game, we’ll need new rules.   So this week, I’m referencing theories from highly-ired futurists and authors Jamais Cascio and Stephan Grabmeier to help us build a modern playbook. Specifically, I’ll dive into the BANI World guide, which is an acronym for: Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, and Incomprehensible. What You’ll Learn in this Episode: Honing your intuition Denial as a coping strategy The decline of uncertainty reduction How our current language fails us Capacity & resilience Listen to the Full Episode Featured on the Show: “It’s like a mini MBA for solopreneurs.” Unlike anything else offered in the industry, Expat Coach Coalition is a place where we learn together, network extensively, and most importantly, look out for each other. We’re in the FINAL DAYS of registration, so give the CEO in you this ultimate advantage right here. Sundae’s Website Sundae’s Facebook Business Page – Sundae Schneider-Bean LLC IN TRANSIT Hub Ambition VIP Series Adapt & Succeed Abroad Expat Coach Coalition The Steady Series A BANI World   XPath Global   Angie Weinberger   Catch These Podcasts / Articles: EP270: able AI With Maikel Groenewoud       We’re delighted to be in the Top 5 of the global Best 30 Expat Podcasts! Subscribe: iTunes | Android Full Episode Transcript: Transcript Hello, It is 06:00 am in New York, 12:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 7:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. I am an intercultural strategist, transformation facilitator, and solution-oriented coach, and I am on a mission to help you adapt & succeed through ANY life transition.   Maybe in these times, we can draw on the wisdom of Winston Churchill, “If you’re going through hell, keep going.”   This is really part of the reason why I have been so committed to delivering The Steady Series inside the IN TRANSIT Hub, steady improving results in unsteadied times all of April 2022 together with the Expat Coach Coalition, because for some people living with this level of uncertainty, and unpredictability it feels like hell and what we’re looking for is some sort of direction or soft landing that we can trust. I get it.    This episode, we’re going to talk about; How do we move forward steadily and get results in their lives in unsteady times? And I’m doing this recording on the same day that I’m giving what’s called a “Latte and Learn” for the Steady Series where I’ll talk about; How You Can Anchor Your In Solid Tools For Coaching Expats. So if you are someone who wants to work with expats or already does make sure that you check out that learning series that I do because it will help give you more insight. But what I wanted to do today is bring some of those same ideas into this episode so everybody could benefit.    Let’s focus on the word that we’ve heard honestly since 2020 and I’m sure you’re sick of hearing it. The word is, “Unprecedented.” We’re just so over it, of always hearing about how we’ve never gone to this before and we just don’t know how to move forward. We know that. We know that times are unprecedented and it’s like we’re looking for more. How do we move forward? How do we deal with these unprecedented times? How do we deal with these current circumstances when we have no roap? And everybody’s looking at everybody else going, “Yeah, uh, can you help me out here?”    And, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this myself and I think part of it is that we need a fresh language, a fresh approach to talk about the way that things have changed.    And I have to be really honest when all of this started, actually in December 2019, I’m like, “Oh, that’s just a thing in China. And it’s not going to come to South Africa. It’s not going to come to Europe,” etc. And then all of a sudden, March 2020 things started to get real. In fact, I almost got locked out of South Africa, had I not followed my intuition and change my flight, I would have been in big trouble, and separated from my family.    At the time, I didn’t want to accept that the world was different. But now that we’re 2-3 years on, we know it’s changed world. So we need new language to explain this changed world, and we need a road map to move forward.   So even if we don’t know if the map works yet, it’s better than having no map at all.    So I’m turning to the work from Jamais Cascio, a renowned futurist. And that work has been built on Stephan Grabmeier for direction, and you may have heard about this. This is something that we’ve been talking about actually for several years, even before the pandemic, but it’s talking about living in a BANI World. A BANI world is Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear and Incomprehensible. Does that sound familiar?    I mean, for real how much around you feels brittle? How much anxiousness are you seeing in yourself in your loved ones, on your social media feed, in the news globally?    Nonlinear and is a little bit more abstract and we’re going to talk about that little bit but incomprehensible for sure. That one is intuitive. We get that. But we’re going to go through each term and we’re going to talk about how do we use BANI as a road map in our lives now to create steady progress and get proven results.    So let’s start with brittle. Now again, what I’m sharing is in part based on how I’ve digested the work from Jamais Cascio and from Stephan Grabmeierr and how I’ve seen it work out in our lives and trends, especially for those who are living highly globally mobile lives, or used to, before all this stuff started.    Brittle, B for BANI is brittle, and this is the thing, we know brittle, we know it’s something that’s fragile. And brittle is something that can fall apart and the tricky part about living in a brittle world is that we can’t rely on something brittle, even when it seems stable, right? Even what feels stable can be fragile.    And, for example, that’s how I felt when I felt like we had reached stability at the end of the pandemic or what we were coming out of the pandemic, and all of a sudden, Russia invaded Ukraine, I felt like something crumbled and it felt like there was stability, but there really wasn’t. And maybe you felt that in your own life, where you didn’t get the assignment or maybe your company sent you home early, or maybe they removed a contract that you thought was going to be long-term, right? Creating instability in something that you thought was stable. So I don’t think I need to give more examples. I think you get it. Brittle, wanting to rely on something but realizing that even what seems stable can be fragile. So that’s inherent in the BANI world.    The next one is Anxious. I’ve noticed this in really large ways with potential clients is this idea of helplessness or even working through this with my clients, anxiousness, people feel helpless. Have you caught yourself waiting for the next disaster or crisis? If you’re a business owner, were you afraid to even plan anything? Because you felt like it was just going to get sabotaged anyway. Or maybe you’ve noticed a tendency to be ive. I am seeing implications in this, people who put their dreams their ambitions, their internal transformations pretty much on hold from that feeling of anxiousness and helplessness and are now frustrated that they didn’t work through that when it started to emerge in 2020 because now we are heavy two years down the road, and they realize in hindsight that they could have been taking small gentle action. Again, not ignoring your feelings, not ignoring reality, but small gentle action to move forward which would actually be nurturing and reduce anxiety. That’s the irony about this idea about Anxious is when you’re feeling helpless and you go into a mode of ivity, you actually stay stuck in anxiety and anxiousness rather than nurturing where you’re at into something more positive, and more empowering. So definitely been seeing that happening.    Nonlinear is a really interesting one in of the concept with BANI. Nonlinear, I’ll let you do your own research and read more about it and how it has to do with tech, how it has to relate to AI, all kinds of interesting things. But in our everyday lives, think about it how small decisions have large impacts. I saw this happening where people were asking themselves, “Should I stay or go?”   I had clients who were on the verge of repatriating or expatriated and they had to decide, “Do we go this week or not?” Because if they didn’t make that decision would have had an impact of getting locked out or in for 18 months, right? Being there for a funeral or not. Small decisions, large impacts, and we’ve been seeing that happen. We’ve been seeing changes with the delayed impact. I’ve noticed changes that have happened have had an impact on my business, one year later. I’m like, “Hey, what? Where’d that come from?” But I read now in hindsight, I can see that, it’s nonlinear. It’s not one-to-one. So you’re watching that happen as a business owner. And you might notice for yourself that when you’re putting in your effort, it just might fizzle. So you can’t count on your steady progress when that’s happening.    There are two examples, I think about that are gorgeous about Nonlinear:   Do you when that container got stuck in the canal? And it had it was a small thing for that one container, but it had massive global impacts on all of the people who are waiting for their things globally. So that was a large impact.  And there’s something I’m thinking about, I was just saying it to my husband last night while he was cooking, this idea of Nonlinear what we watched happen. And it’s actually, I think going to be quite beautiful, but I’ve noticed my youngest son, create friendships with new classmates and also girls in his class because of gaming online. And this started from lockdown and now he has friendships with girls that he hasn’t before, and he’s associated those girls with gaming. And I just think about what kind of nonlinear impact might that have when young kids from all over the gender spectrum are interested in gaming? And what will that do for creating a lower bias around who are gamers? Who is competent at gaming?   What friendships were established online now might result in new business relationships, 20 years from now. We don’t know, and that’s going to be fun to see. So, it’s one of the positive things I think about Nonlinear.    My word for this year is, Infinite Possibilities.   So, I am trying to have that clear message with the universe about what I mean by infinite possibilities. But that is something that I think is fun to tap into when we think about how this nonlinear nature, what might be possible.    So, because of that nonlinearness that’s going on, the results seem to lack logic or purpose. And it could be something–  if you my recent interview with Maikel Groenewoud, how we talked about AI, and how, if something is biased and programmed into artificial intelligence, it can have, literally, life-changing negative impacts on communities. Like, they were talking about levels of oxygen measurement and Black lives, right? So, it’s incomprehensible that one minor miss-biased-code can actually impact lives. It is absurd what can happen and the impact and magnitude of that. So it is hard to grasp and it does feel absurd and that’s why we’re living this incomprehensible time.    I know, when I woke up, what was it, January 6th, when the US Capitol the insurrection happened and I looked at the photos with the furs and the horns and all of this stuff, and some of the things that happened inside the Capitol. It was for me, the definition of absurd. I couldn’t believe that was happening in the nation’s capital and for those who have been following racism in the US, they might say that it’s not surprising, but the images were absurd. And the idea is just overwhelming. And so this idea of the incomprehensible happening. We’re watching incomprehensible things happening, politically, innocent lives being lost around the world. When you wake up in the morning, you’re like, “Really, I can’t even comprehend this.” Right? And for me, we call it uncertainty reduction, when you’re feeling uncertain, you go for information to reduce uncertainty. And what we’re noticing now is, unfortunately, more data doesn’t always clarify. In fact, it might even confuse or overwhelm and you know that when you know people were doing research on COVID, who were they listening to, which experts were credible, which social media feeds were saying what about it.    So I think I’ve made the case pretty clear, we are in a BANI world and you might have your own examples that you’re thinking of. And this might make you feel like it’s the end of the world. I’m thinking of that song *singing* “It’s the end of the world as we know it,” and I’m joking and it’s not funny, right? I say this with a little – I’m trying to laugh because otherwise, you’ll cry your eyes out.    But the thing is, I am hopeful. I really am hopeful. And my thing is, and I’ll talk about this more, at the end of this whole episode. This is where we’re at. I struggle sometimes when something changes, I do love to live in denial for a while. It’s like one of my coping strategies. So, I like to plug my ears and go, “La la la, it’s not happening. I’m going to ignore it.” But I feel like I’m in a place now where I’m like, “No, this is new game. This is what we’re doing.” So where is the optimism? Where can we feel empowered? And what can we do about it? And I do feel optimistic and especially, there are two groups that I’m thinking about:   For those of us who have been living cross-cultural or globally mobile lives, we are perfectly poised to do this. And I’ll tell you more in a second, why I mean that.  And the other is for those of us who are in coaching, who are therapists, or other professionals who are serving expats, this is our time. We are made for this, and this is our time to in unsteady times. This is where we need to be showing up as fully as possible to make as much of an impact as we can.    I know is individuals we can ride this out in a new way. And I know as coaches and those in a function, especially for those who are living globally mobile lives, are perfectly poised to in unsteady times.    So here’s how, and I hope that you feel that same level of hope and optimism by the time you’re listening to this episode.    So thankfully, we can draw on the work from other futurists who have created a beginning of a roap for us to move forward. So when we’re looking at BANI: Brittleness, what is brittleness require us to do when things are brittle? What do we need to build? When there’s anxiety, how do we reduce anxiety so we can still function? In a context where there’s nonlinearity, how do we continue to adapt? And when things are feeling incomprehensible, what do we need to draw on to move forward? Those are important questions and I want us to explore them together today in this episode.    And we were talking about living in a BANI world on XPath Global. We did a live chat on April 14th with experts. I was also ed by Angie Weinberger and we were talking about this BANI world and what does that mean when we are living in transition and our challenges feel unseen? And my perspective is, “Hey! New game.”    We really need to update, and I’ll talk about this more in other podcasts, update our operating system, update our operating instructions. We need a new game and this is our opportunity as individuals and those who the global mobile, for example to have a new game. And this is hard to do, because we have what has worked. We have our patterns that are habits and it’s like what we need to switch out the lens, if we were wearing glasses and we had on, let’s say rose colored glasses. We gotta take those rose-tinted glasses and put on the ones that help us see now more clearly, and help us see what maybe is subtle. Right? And again, all of this is about steady, steady results, proven results and most of this is not dramatic. It’s not an on or off switch, its gentle, it’s nuanced.    So we’re going to walk through that really briefly when we’re talking about the BANI. So I’m going to go backwards from BANI. We’re going to start with Incomprehensible. It’s like, “What do I do when I can’t comprehend it? How do I anchor myself and steady myself when everything feels incomprehensible?” Honestly, we have to anchor ourselves. And what can we do? I think as business owners, and I’m going to talk more about the business side in another episode and in one of my Latte and Learns. But as business owners, if things are incomprehensible, we can work on being transparent with our community. If we are a family member, we can be transparent about where we are or with ourselves. So it’s, “Hey, I’ve never done this before. Things are always changing. I don’t quite understand the layers here. I’m working to try to understand,” right? Really drawing on transparency. And I think this technique when we’re dealing with incomprehensibility and we’re being transparent about where we are, actually positively impacts the anxiety level, because then we’re just reminding everyone we’re in this together, and we are human, and we don’t know, but at least, I’m sharing what I do know when I don’t know.   Okay, and the other thing, I think when we’re looking at incomprehensibility when we’re looking at what all this calls for is intuition and Stephan Grabmeier has a great graphic that I’ll share in the show notes, which helps you see how these match up one-to-one. But when we don’t understand and there isn’t a clear roap that’s already been given to us, who decides? Who decides what the next steps are? You do. With your intuition that you are nurturing. So for any of us that are not already nurturing our intuition, this is the time to do it because I know for myself, when I’ve been through a crisis situation, like when we were in Burkina Faso and there was a political uprising or there was an attempted coup d’état or there was a terrorist attack or whatever was going on, I in the beginning and one of the early crisis situations, I was looking to the outside for answers until my husband was like, “Sundae, no one has the answers. We have to look within.” And so this is really important to really tap into our intuition. So, what does that mean? How do you tap into your intuition?    And I think it very connects to the same strategies that help us reduce our anxiety. So if we’re looking at BANI that was incomprehensible, I want to skip over to the A, Anxiety. And anxiety asks us to be mindful, right? And that helps us actually hone our intuition. Do you see how these are interconnected? So when we’re feeling anxiety, maybe we need to go to mindfulness. Like, “Wow, how am I feeling? And am I present? Am tapping into my intuition?” Mindfulness.    And then Empathy, and I think the perfect example is this recent crisis with Russia and the Ukraine because of the way I’m connected globally. When I felt anxiety rise about that context, it was very self-centered, it was around my anxieties, around my life. But when I was able to drop down into empathy and to mindfulness, I was able to see it in more complex ways. I was able to understand. What was I grieving? How was I really doing? What did I need to do to show up for my clients? What I need to do to show up for myself? And then, how do I have empathy with all parties? For those who are directly impacted around the world in nuanced ways because this is obviously much more beyond just two countries in conflict. This is tapping into a generational trauma around the world that Weltschmerz. So are you now, in of moving forward and whatever steady progress you want to create in your life, whether it’s in your business, your relationship or your parenting approach, or your health? We need to we need to make sure, we are also navigating and holding this BANI world up with healthy strategies. And empathy and mindfulness are our two of those things that will help with anxiety.    So, just do a quick check with yourself. Are are you engaging in intentional empathy, intentional mindfulness, as a strategy to reduce anxiety? If not, then there you go. Now, you know. That’s something you can start. Same thing when things are incomprehensible. Are you intentionally doing the work to tap into your intuition and being transparent with your community or communities? Family? Loved ones, etc?    All right. So we’ve talked about Incomprehensible, Anxiety, let’s pop back to Nonlinearity. It calls for, according to the research that we’re looking at, it calls for actually, what people who are living globally mobile lives are great at anyway, looking at context and adaptivity. So what is beautiful about this, is for those of you who are in my community, who are living in transition and have had multiple transitions over and over, you know there are parts of you that are highly adaptive. This isn’t your first rodeo, right? So reminding yourself, “Hey, I have been dubbed active in the past and I can adapt now. What did I do in the past that worked? How can I apply that to now? And what is the context I need to be seeing now.” And this is again, you see how these are all interrelated. With context, I tap into empathy. Not just my context, but what’s the global context? What’s the economic context? The relational context? So we can nurture our own strategies by tapping into that context. “What do I know about the context and how have I been adaptive in the past?” So that helps us with nonlinearity, helps us cope and move forward.    So we’ve got the ANI but we haven’t talked about Brittle yet, with BANI. And brittleness requires us to build capacity and resilience. Capacity and Resilience. And this is something I’ve talked about for years, you know that I am about building capacity and resilience. This is something that is one of my rally cries, by battle cries. We do need to constantly be adding our capacity and building resilience for whatever life slings at us. Even in normal times because we’re doing real life. And so I would encourage you to do an assessment for yourself: Are you taking care of yourself? You know what I say about first-class self-care, that are you taking excellent care of yourself so that you can optimize your capacity. Right? And it doesn’t mean you have to be super strong. It means just as strong as you can be now, so you can be as resilient as you can be, now. So it’s not feeding into the brittleness but actually creating strength inside of you, inside of your organization, inside of your business, inside of your family. That is so important.    And this is something I’ve been talking about this entire time. This is not new. So you can check back at some of my other podcasts on how to build resilience and how to take care of yourself for more insight. But I want to put that out there because it is so critical, now, in these uncertain times and I mentioned that because I don’t want you to get back into that place of ivity and helplessness because, no matter what is going on globally, life does continue to move forward. And the world is still spinning, and we do need to keep putting food on the table, and keep nurturing our relationships and keep taking care of ourselves. So that is so important.    I talk a lot more about this on building resilience. Inside my program Adapt & Succeed where I also train my coaches from Expat Coach Coalition on how to help individuals build capacity and resilience.    So listen, just a side note for resilience, if you are ing others, if you’re a parent, if you are an employer, if you are inside an existing community, we will serve others and help people build their capacity and resilience, but don’t forget about your strategies,   I always tell my clients, “You’re the golden goose, you’re creating the golden egg so you need to be the one who is also out there doing your work.” And what I know about people who are empathetic and want to serve and want to help others, it’s pretty easy to forget about yourself in the process. And that’s the whole oxygen mask first strategy.    All right, so I think this is perfect perfectly said by Jamais Cascio, he’s The American Anthropologist and Futurist that talks about the BANI world. He says, “Foresight turns out to be a critical adaptive strategy for times of great stress.” So let’s use this, know, what do we know now? And how do we take that and put it forward toward foresight so that we are adaptive in this BANI world? How do we focus on nurturing our capacity and resilience? How do we focus on making empathy and mindfulness a practice? Keeping mindful of adaptive strategies and really seeing the context and then using transparency in our communication and tapping into our intuition.    That’s the roap. That’s what we’ve got. And that is better than ive. That’s better than freezing. That’s better than not knowing. It’s better than doing it the old way because old ways don’t work in new systems. So there you go. I’m going to go more in detail in that in session of the Steady Series, where I’m going to talk about anchoring yourself for long-term business success. So if you want more, check that out.    Also, if you would love to build your own capacity and resilience, your transparency, your empathy, and the way that you can build up yourself but also others, if you are someone who already serves the globally mobile community or wants to, then I invite you to check out Expat Coach Coalition. I’ve been talking about It for weeks inside the IN TRANSIT Hub. I open the doors to this once or twice a year. This is the only time that I have it scheduled for 2022 so now is the time. This is an opportunity. Expat Coach Coalition, is not just a program. It is actually a movement where we collectively teach more expats proven strategies so they can make the most of their lives, even in a BANI world. Where we as professionals channel serving them have thriving businesses. Where we fortify our own business skills, and our coaching skills, and our own resilience ourselves. Because I truly believe that together we absolutely are stronger. We need that more than ever now in these times, right? How can we come together to amplify our competence? How can we adapt? How can we leverage what we already do well? How can we add fresh tools and serve those in transition? And how can you amplify how you show up in your business? That’s what it’s all about it’s a two-part program. If you’re interested, apply, and I’ll send you all kinds of details. You’ll find out about the tools that I teach, you’ll find out about the business side. One of my graduates just said, “It’s like a mini MBA for solopreneurs.” So I love that.    It is five months of your transformation. So you can build your confidence, your know-how, your security, and your revenue. Do not be intimidated by the people who’ve already ed the Coalition because there are some amazing fantastic professionals in there. But if you look at the lineup of who’s already been through the program, don’t do that thing where you’re minimizing your own talents and abilities because I guarantee you there were others within the Coalition who did that. And once they got over that they were able to fully step into their skills and abilities. What I’m loving is that this program has been around, it’s tested. The materials have been tested for, I don’t know, going on 12 years and the actual program has been around four or five years. And those in the community who have taken it, have said it’s actually perfect for right now, when I hear about it.    Listen to what one person said, she said, “This program is great at providing action-based strategies to help me take control of whatever is bothering me, rather than feeling like life is spinning out of control,” and that came, even before all of this, all of these interesting times weld up.    So check it out. I’m happy to say more. Go ahead and apply at https://www.sundaebean.com/expat-coach-coalition/. All you do is apply, tell me about you, and then we can talk. But just a caveat, this is the only time in 2022 that I have that currently scheduled. It will be the last time I offer Expat Coach Coalition at this price. So don’t miss out. Applications close, April 29, 2022. So the time this podcast goes live, it’ll be Friday. So definitely get your application in. Applying doesn’t commit you to anything but it does invite you to have a conversation with me, if this is really a high fit for you and we will be starting May 16th.    So there you go. This is all part of the Steady Series. It’s going on all of April and we still have more. So me when this episode comes out, I will be getting ready for the Latte and Learn on the business side. So if you listen to this on the day it goes live, don’t miss out on that live session that very day or each recording. You also have other things to look forward to help steady yourself. We will have Juliana Overmeyer coming in and talking about; How to be Unshakable in Uncertain Times. Where she’ll help us look at how to rely on your faith in times of transition. Not one Faith or one religion, but, in general. So you could adopt at to whatever way you draw sort of strengthen something bigger. And then we have this beautiful way to look at feeling steady with Nick Pinguet, she’s the founder of A Home Worth Having on how to design a space where you feel grounded and fully fit in. So even when the world out there feels scary, we can create a home where we feel grounded.    All right, everyone, all of this is part of our intention of how do we move forward in a BANI world? How do we work through or with this brittleness, anxiety, non-linearity, and incomprehensibility that’s going on? The answers are right there. They are right there, right? In these unprecedented times, we can’t control the outcomes, but we can move through the brittle while building capacity and resilience. We can manage anxiety, by honing our empathy and mindfulness. We can cope with this nonlinearity by staying focused on context and adaptability. And we can work through the incomprehensible in community with others and also by being transparent and developing our intuition. That is, the best roap that we have right now in a BANI world. And if you are a coach and aspiring coach, or a professional, that serves expats in some way, do reach out about Expat Coach Coalition because the world needs us now more than ever. And I’ve got tested tools and business practices that will help you help others in these unsteady times.    All right, you’ve been listening to IN TRANSIT with Sundae Bean. Thank you for listening. I will leave you with the words from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: “Solving an unprecedented crisis will require unprecedented ambition.”   Enjoy The Show? Don’t miss an episode, subscribe via iTunes or RSS. Please leave us a review in iTunes (or here for Android). The post 277: New Game, New Rules appeared first on Sundae Schneider-Bean, LLC..